Movement markers?

[Brian W]

Meanwhile defensive fire markers would not only have to be remembered--their state (first fire, final fire, etc.) would also have to be remembered.

I know you are referring to FF/SFF/FPF, but I almost never mark my units during DFPh, for the same reason I don't need to mark things "moved"--it's easy to remember who Final Fired and who hasn't. And even if forgotten, your opponent would have to as well. I've seen some people mark their AFPh units with Prep Fire counters. too.

Once again, if I were playing a RB CG all bets are off. But for 90% of scenarios, I don't feel the need.

 

[ZenRiver]

I would like 'Move' counters. On the back side there should be 'Adv' (for Advance), because You have to remember advancing during the Advance Phase too.

I never understood why there are counters for nearly every aspect in the game, but not for move/advance.

I can't follow the argument that You don't forget which unit moved/advanced and which units didn't move/advance. You can say that about Prep Fire, First Fire, etc. too. But for these actions there are counters available.

@ MMP guys: What do You think about a half sheet of 1/2" Move/Adv counters in the next ASL Journal?

Do you want the counters to be nation specific colours, or just generic two team colour options?

 

[zgrose]

White with "Movement Phase green" text (see Smoke Grenades and Residual) would be my preference.

 

[Michael R]

I use the "turn the counter" method so that I do not NEED to remember which counters moved; its obvious. This relieves my stressed brain with its limited horsepower.

 

[Pitman]

I know you are referring to FF/SFF/FPF, but I almost never mark my units during DFPh, for the same reason I don't need to mark things "moved"--it's easy to remember who Final Fired and who hasn't. And even if forgotten, your opponent would have to as well. I've seen some people mark their AFPh units with Prep Fire counters. too.

Once again, if I were playing a RB CG all bets are off. But for 90% of scenarios, I don't feel the need.

Yes, but if someone is going around placing NO MOVE counters you can be sure they are placing Final Fire counters in the DFPh, too.

 

[jrv]

Perhaps it would be better to create "haven't moved" counters instead and take them off as units move.

JR

 

[zgrose]

Perhaps it would be better to create "haven't moved" counters instead and take them off as units move.

That masks the useful information from you and your opponent.

 

[Zugführer]

It's not an "argument", it's practical experience. The vast majority of players (in my experience) simply do not have much trouble remembering who has moved and who hasn't; in the rare cases when you might slip up and try to move something twice, you can be sure your opponent will catch it.

It's not an argument, it is just a basic fact. Most people most of the time don't have problems remembering.

Seems not to be true for all players. Even in this thread there are players who would use move/advance counters. So, that's not a low percentage of players. If you extrapolate this ..

It's a shame if you are one of the very few people who need aids like this, but you have several practical solutions available to you (as described in this thread). Why burden every one else with counters they don't need and don't want?

Again. You cannot know if there are only a very few people who would use the counters. It is only Your experience, not more. I don't see any perfectly working solutions. Turning unit counters after moving is not a good solution, because it doesn't work for vehicles and guns.

I don't want to start a 'flame war' here about such a silly thing like counters in a game, but I don't understand why some people are refusing a new kind of counter. The use of move/advance counters could be optional. If You don't want to use it, then don't use it. What's the problem?

 

[olli]

This thread makes me laugh, how many years have we all been playing this ? And now somebody needs moved counters ? What have we all been doing since the beginning, oh yes remembering which we moved by either starting all the moving from one side and systematically moving to the other flank, or like said earlier in the thread have counters all facing one way at the start and when moved have them facing the opposite way. Why want even more clutter on a board?????

 

[Robin Reeve]

Syllogism :
- I don't remember when I needed to mark moved units
- Lack of memory is the reason to mark moved units
- So, as I have not needed to mark moved units, I must mark moved units.
Q. E. D.

 

[jrv]

That masks the useful information from you and your opponent.

bonus!

JR

 

[Zugführer]

This thread makes me laugh, how many years have we all been playing this ? And now somebody needs moved counters ? What have we all been doing since the beginning, oh yes remembering which we moved by either starting all the moving from one side and systematically moving to the other flank, or like said earlier in the thread have counters all facing one way at the start and when moved have them facing the opposite way. Why want even more clutter on a board?????

I play SL/ASL over 30 years now and I asked me why there are no move/advance counters since day one.
As I said: If there were move/advance counters available in an ASL Journal or Action Pack and they were supposed to be optional, You don't have to use them. So, what is Your problem?

 

[olli]

No problem but they have never been in the system and add extra clutter on the table. , why not adopt one of the suggestions from all the above? - a lot easier and less counter density.

 

[bprobst]

Seems not to be true for all players. Even in this thread there are players who would use move/advance counters. So, that's not a low percentage of players. If you extrapolate this ..

Why are you assuming that the "few" people responding in this thread that most players don't need these aids are only talking about themselves? I've been playing ASL for the best part of 30 years, including attending many tournaments over this period. I've never seen a single person require such markers, or at worst were not otherwise able to make do by rotating the counters etc. The others responding in this thread pointing out that your problem is not a real-world problem have also been seen at many tournaments over many years and have the same tale to tell.

Again. You cannot know if there are only a very few people who would use the counters. It is only Your experience, not more.

No, it's your experience, and not more. How many players, apart from yourself, have you personally witnessed being unable to function without cobbling up some form of movement counters? How long have you been playing the game? How many games of ASL would you say you have under your belt?

When your experience matches the combined experience of the rest of us, please raise the topic again.

The use of move/advance counters could be optional. If You don't want to use it, then don't use it. What's the problem?

The problem is that you want MMP to spend money to print them, and thus force everyone else to spend money to buy them (if they come with another product) or cause MMP to lose a shitload of money if they are stand-alone (because the only people who would buy them are you and Pitcavage). The rest of us, if somehow forced to acquire them, would either throw them away or just leave them in storage. What's the problem? What's stopping you making your own counters for your own use? You're the only person in the world who wants this.

BTW, there is no ASL scenario that has so many vehicles and/or guns that no-one capable of playing ASL in the first place (with the possible exception of yourself) would be unable to remember which ones had moved and which ones haven't. And I include the various big-arse Kursk scenarios in that statement.

 

[jrv]

BTW, there is no ASL scenario that has so many vehicles and/or guns that no-one capable of playing ASL in the first place (with the possible exception of yourself) would be unable to remember which ones had moved and which ones haven't. And I include the various big-arse Kursk scenarios in that statement.

While I haven't found a case for "moved" counters yet, the other day I played a scenario where I would have appreciated an "Attempted Starshell" counter.

JR

 

[volgaG68]

While I haven't found a case for "moved" counters yet, the other day I played a scenario where I would have appreciated an "Attempted Starshell" counter.

JR

Similarly, the only counter-management memory issue I have sometimes, and only in XL scenarios involving lots of vehicles, is whether or not a vehicle has already attempted a sD/Motion Attempt during the opposing side's MPh. After going back and forth on opposite sides of the map and watching the movement of a dozen enemy tanks, a "Motion Attempt Failed" marker would be a nice reminder of those who have tried and failed. Considering making a couple of these on blank counters with the flipside being "Motion/sX Failed", 'X' being D, M, N, or P.

 

[Capt. Batguano]

You try routinely perching 5/8" counters on the tops of ASL stacks of 1/2" counters and see how far that gets you. If you ever knocked over counters because of level markers in a crowded building, just imagine that happening everywhere, every turn.

Maybe I'm not understanding the premise here. I was under the impression the counters were for remembering which units moved when you continue a game later. If this is meant just as a routine for every movement phase then I'm not really seeing the need for them. If one is playing such a large and drawn out game that they're actually forgetting what units have moved within the same movement phase then I would suggest simply taking a cellphone camera shot at the beginning of every movement phase and reference it to see which units have moved as you go.

 

[clubby]

Does it really matter if units are marked past that MPh when you continue a game later? If they moved they can shoot in AFPh, if they Prep Fired they can't and will still be marked. The ONLY time I can see it matter at all is if you somehow you decided you wanted to shoot a MMG/HMG/Light Mortar in the AFPh and neither moved nor marked yourself OPP FIRE. I see those situations as pretty rare.

 

[clubby]

And in my mind, it doesn't appear that the objection is to memory devices, it's to extra counters. Because it appears that most players use some kind of memory device, be it turning the units 45*, placing them front or back of the hex, using a tile spacer or colored plastic disc. Personally, I've played with players that used all of those methods, so it appears that SOME sort of memory device is used by a majority of players, just not official counters.

 

[Pitman]

And in my mind, it doesn't appear that the objection is to memory devices, it's to extra counters. Because it appears that most players use some kind of memory device, be it turning the units 45*, placing them front or back of the hex, using a tile spacer or colored plastic disc. Personally, I've played with players that used all of those methods, so it appears that SOME sort of memory device is used by a majority of players, just not official counters.

I think most veteran ASLers would tell you otherwise.