Movement markers?

hayman

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
677
Reaction score
266
Location
Sydney
Country
llAustralia
Greetings fellow space nerd!

Back on topic, I play a lot of solo scenarios & SASL so I have gotten into the habit of moving units in a north-to-south order (or east-to-west, depending on board orientation).

Like Brian W, I tend to play smaller scenarios, so its easy to remember which units have moved (but if a crucial flank attack has to go in first [out of 'directional' order, so be it).
 

MAS01

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
1,376
Reaction score
469
Location
Joplin, MO
First name
Mark
Country
llUnited States
Greetings fellow space nerd!

Back on topic, I play a lot of solo scenarios & SASL so I have gotten into the habit of moving units in a north-to-south order (or east-to-west, depending on board orientation).

Like Brian W, I tend to play smaller scenarios, so its easy to remember which units have moved (but if a crucial flank attack has to go in first [out of 'directional' order, so be it).
But is this the best method? If your opponent has an MG on your right flank that can reach the center of your line, maybe it's better to move another unit to draw that first Fire so your center guys aren't as targeted. The better players I've seen at tournaments move their guys "randomly" (not to them, but to an outsider). Just a little food for thought.
 

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
14,376
Reaction score
10,268
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llUkraine
Back on topic, I play a lot of solo scenarios & SASL so I have gotten into the habit of moving units in a north-to-south order (or east-to-west, depending on board orientation).
Might be good for 'accounting' purposes but is very likely not sound tactically - and that's what counts.

Personally, I would be loath to use any sort of 'Moved' counters or tokens to mark the appropriate units. Counters add extra clutter and mask what is relevant - the units. Tokens just intrude on my aestethic perception of the playing area.

In smaller scenarios, I think there's no trouble remembering which units have moved - and yet less trouble for vehicles. In case some sort of marking is necessary, in my experience turning moved counters by 45° (not 90°) is the way to go. Easily done and easily catches the eye.

von Marwitz
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
620
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
Counters add extra clutter and mask what is relevant - the units.
I find trench and foxhole markers tremendously annoying for just this reason. Though I understand the need to differentiate in the hex vs in the trench, I am always tempted to leave units on top of the trench counters.
 

Zugführer

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
508
Reaction score
141
Location
Hexenkessel
Country
llGermany
I would like 'Move' counters. On the back side there should be 'Adv' (for Advance), because You have to remember advancing during the Advance Phase too.

I never understood why there are counters for nearly every aspect in the game, but not for move/advance.

I can't follow the argument that You don't forget which unit moved/advanced and which units didn't move/advance. You can say that about Prep Fire, First Fire, etc. too. But for these actions there are counters available.

@ MMP guys: What do You think about a half sheet of 1/2" Move/Adv counters in the next ASL Journal?
 

BattleSchool

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
5,115
Reaction score
1,933
Location
Ottawa GMT -5/-4
Country
llCanada
Unless you are playing a Night scenario, you could use No Move counters to indicate which units have moved/advanced.

IOW, once a unit has moved, place a No Move counter on or beside it. Ditto for the APh.

I'm sure that many players get very little use out of these counters otherwise (which is a pity).
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
Unless you are playing a Night scenario, you could use No Move counters to indicate which units have moved/advanced.

IOW, once a unit has moved, place a No Move counter on or beside it. Ditto for the APh.

I'm sure that many players get very little use out of these counters otherwise (which is a pity).
They are 5/8" counters.
 

Capt. Batguano

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
311
Reaction score
219
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
Country
llCanada
I like Battleschools solution. Using a pre-existing, hardly used counter that says exactly what you want it for, "no move".
 

zgrose

Elder Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
4,239
Reaction score
952
Location
Kingwood, TX
First name
Zoltan
Country
llUnited States
Counters add extra clutter and mask what is relevant - the units.
They do add clutter, but there is little relevant on a Moved stack during MPh. You can shoot at them, they can't shoot at anyone, etc. Most of the time during MPh Moved/Not-Moved is the most relevant piece of information and you can see the statistics of those units which haven't moved. Same reason that Prep Fire counters don't hide anything relevant because those guys already fired and that's what you need to know when you're trying to decide what to do next.

So yes, definitely clutter and potentially aestethic issues, but masking relevant info I'd have to say no.
 

Matt Book

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
406
Country
llUnited States
You could just use the "No Move" counters on the vehicles after they are done with their Movement Phase
Unless you are playing a Night scenario, you could use No Move counters to indicate which units have moved/advanced.

IOW, once a unit has moved, place a No Move counter on or beside it. Ditto for the APh.

I'm sure that many players get very little use out of these counters otherwise (which is a pity).
"Test for Echo....."

Neil Peart
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,535
Reaction score
1,441
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
I can't follow the argument that You don't forget which unit moved/advanced and which units didn't move/advance.
It's not an "argument", it's practical experience. The vast majority of players (in my experience) simply do not have much trouble remembering who has moved and who hasn't; in the rare cases when you might slip up and try to move something twice, you can be sure your opponent will catch it.

Remember, these mechanisms are not just ASL, this stuff has been happening since the first players started the first scenario from Squad Leader. If experience had shown that "moved/advanced" counters were useful to many players, you can be sure that they would have been added to ASL.

It's a shame if you are one of the very few people who need aids like this, but you have several practical solutions available to you (as described in this thread). Why burden every one else with counters they don't need and don't want?
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I like Battleschools solution. Using a pre-existing, hardly used counter that says exactly what you want it for, "no move".
You try routinely perching 5/8" counters on the tops of ASL stacks of 1/2" counters and see how far that gets you. If you ever knocked over counters because of level markers in a crowded building, just imagine that happening everywhere, every turn.
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I can't follow the argument that You don't forget which unit moved/advanced and which units didn't move/advance.
It's not an argument, it is just a basic fact. Most people most of the time don't have problems remembering.

You can say that about Prep Fire, First Fire, etc. too. But for these actions there are counters available.
I am sure that a moment's reflection will help you understand the problems with this statement. Prep Fire and First Fire counters are both used over multiple phases. Prep Fire markers in particular would have to be "remembered" in their absence from the Prep Fire phase all the way through the Advancing Fire Phase. Meanwhile defensive fire markers would not only have to be remembered--their state (first fire, final fire, etc.) would also have to be remembered. Apples and oranges.
 

BattleSchool

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
5,115
Reaction score
1,933
Location
Ottawa GMT -5/-4
Country
llCanada
You try routinely perching 5/8" counters on the tops of ASL stacks of 1/2" counters and see how far that gets you. If you ever knocked over counters because of level markers in a crowded building, just imagine that happening everywhere, every turn.
This is one reason why I think the 5/8" No Move counters may work (for those who desire such reminders). Units in a hex that have not moved are placed on/above the No Move counter. Space permitting, most No Move counters ought to be placed next to a unit that has moved.

Granted, these counters are best suited for CGs, and scenarios such as "To the Last Man" (or possibly, "Himmler's House"), where hex size and counter density are such that one may derive some net benefit from their use.

But I agree that further study is warranted. I nominate the crowd that plays TTLM every year at ASLOk to give "Moved" counters a test drive and report back to the Zugführer later this year. ;)

Not...

gonna...

happen!
 
Top