Mounted Armored Assault

Bruce Childs

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Maine
summer continues to broil onward..... :p

Regarding Armoured Assault movement while on bicycles...

Very rare that you run into this one I'm sure, but looks like there is nothing saying you cant. Please shoot me down if I'm wrong....

thank you
 

Chris Milne

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
675
Reaction score
3
Location
Letchworth, UK
Country
ll
Bruce Childs said:
Very rare that you run into this one I'm sure, but looks like there is nothing saying you cant. Please shoot me down if I'm wrong....


NRBH, but bicycles are SW, right? In which case, their riders are Infantry. Can't think of anything in the rules to prevent it happening.

Now stop worrying about incidental asides like this and get your next Sola log back to me! :)
 

Bruce Childs

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Maine
lol

Just getting more posts up so I get promoted..look, I'm an 8-1 now!

Ill send ya something right off!!
 

Bruce Childs

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Maine
but seriously...

really though.....

Since D15.8 says bicycles are not vehicles but SWs, and D15.85 says their riders are treated as Infantry for all purposes, I can't see a contradiction of the D9.31 Armored Assault definition of Infantry regarding their "Riders'" eligibility to utilize armored assault. Obviously since motorcycles are considered vehicles and their users Riders, they aren't able to gain AA benefits.

Do I have this right? Makes for an interesting situation.....
 

Hubbs5

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
647
Reaction score
48
Location
Greeley, CO
Country
llUnited States
Re: but seriously...

Bruce Childs said:
really though.....

Since D15.8 says bicycles are not vehicles but SWs, and D15.85 says their riders are treated as Infantry for all purposes, I can't see a contradiction of the D9.31 Armored Assault definition of Infantry regarding their "Riders'" eligibility to utilize armored assault. Obviously since motorcycles are considered vehicles and their users Riders, they aren't able to gain AA benefits.

Do I have this right? Makes for an interesting situation.....
I think you need to look at D9.3 and 9.31 a little closer and see that it is specifically talking about AFV's that can give infantry a +1 TEM. It even mentions that an unarmored vehicle provides no +1 TEM until it is a wreck, so if you can't use AA with a truck how would you do it on a bicycle? A bicycle on the other hand is subject to FFMO as if infantry and also must add a -1 TEM per D15.85 and D15.5.
 

Chris Milne

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
675
Reaction score
3
Location
Letchworth, UK
Country
ll
Re: but seriously...

Hubbs5 said:
I think you need to look at D9.3 and 9.31 a little closer and see that it is specifically talking about AFV's that can give infantry a +1 TEM. It even mentions that an unarmored vehicle provides no +1 TEM until it is a wreck, so if you can't use AA with a truck how would you do it on a bicycle? A bicycle on the other hand is subject to FFMO as if infantry and also must add a -1 TEM per D15.85 and D15.5.
Greg, I think you're misinterpreting Bruce's question. (If you're not, then I am!)
He's not arguing that riding a bicycle can provide AA bonus, but that riding a bicycle doesn't make you ineligible for regular AA if you're stacked with an AFV.
Since bicycles are SW, the bike-riders retain their Infantry status, and are therefore eligible for AA, assuming all other criteria are met.

Personally, I wouldn't dare use it for fear that the dice gods would strike me down, but so far no one's demonstrated that it's illegal.
 

Hubbs5

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
647
Reaction score
48
Location
Greeley, CO
Country
llUnited States
Re: but seriously...

Chris Milne said:
Hubbs5 said:
I think you need to look at D9.3 and 9.31 a little closer and see that it is specifically talking about AFV's that can give infantry a +1 TEM. It even mentions that an unarmored vehicle provides no +1 TEM until it is a wreck, so if you can't use AA with a truck how would you do it on a bicycle? A bicycle on the other hand is subject to FFMO as if infantry and also must add a -1 TEM per D15.85 and D15.5.
Greg, I think you're misinterpreting Bruce's question. (If you're not, then I am!)
He's not arguing that riding a bicycle can provide AA bonus, but that riding a bicycle doesn't make you ineligible for regular AA if you're stacked with an AFV.
Since bicycles are SW, the bike-riders retain their Infantry status, and are therefore eligible for AA, assuming all other criteria are met.

Personally, I wouldn't dare use it for fear that the dice gods would strike me down, but so far no one's demonstrated that it's illegal.
Sorry Chris I was misunderstanding his question. I don't see anything that doesn't allow bicycles to use AA with AFV's although riding through the track wake could be very challenging. :wink:
 

Chris Milne

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
675
Reaction score
3
Location
Letchworth, UK
Country
ll
Re: but seriously...

Hubbs5 said:
although riding through the track wake could be very challenging. :wink:

It also seems to be to be legal to load your Infantry onto a vehicle even if they are portaging the bicycles.

I'm surprised that bicycles didn't feature more prominently in WW2, really. They have lots of advantages, apparently.
 

Bruce Childs

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Maine
Yep, yer right Chris, they are useful.

During the Norwegian campaign, they featured prominently in the drive north from Namsos to relieve Narvik. Accounts I've read indicate they were used by the German mountain troops "whenever the situation allowed". Of course, they were ambushed more than once as well, usually resulting in very heavy losses.

I have video of bicyclists following closely behind an armored car crossing a pontoon bridge. I believe this was from the French campaign. I have yet to delve deeper, but suspect they were used in Greece/Yugoslavia as well as other theatres I'm sure. The fluid Blitzkrieg of the early war period offered many opportunities for bicycles/motorcycles to exploit such a bold and dangerous means of transport. In France '44, some bikes were used by Allied troops also, IIRC some British units landed at Normandy thusly equipped. Imagine lugging yer 10-speed across fire swept beaches.....perish the thought!!

So, if this is right, bikers will receive the -1 drm for their status as "riders", FFNAM, and the +1 armored assault drm for a net -1...not bad if you consider they can move at 1/2 MF per road hex and gain CX benefits along with any downhill bonuses...break out da Schwinns!! :p

best regards to you! :D
 

Bruce Childs

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Location
Maine
from the top

Its official.

<<
Since D15.8 says bicycles are not vehicles but SWs, and D15.85 says their riders are treated as Infantry for all purposes, I can't see a contradiction of the D9.31 Armored Assault definition of Infantry regarding their "Riders'" eligibility to utilize armored assault. Obviously since motorcycles are considered vehicles and their users Riders, they aren't able to gain AA benefits. Is Infantry riding bicycles eligible to gain benefits if using armored assault?

Yes.

For official answers, write to asl_qa@multimanpublishing.com

....Perry >>

nuff said
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,488
Reaction score
5,403
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
I also read that the Japanese made an intensive use of stolen bicycles during their invasion of Malaya, down to Signapore.
The Swiss army, in the 90's (!), still had bicycle-equipped infantry : they even painted the bikes with a special anti-radar detection paint! :lol:
I think they stopped the use of biycles now (but, you know, the coutry is so small - 250 km length - that it is more agreable to cross it on a bicycle than with a jet [EXC Alpine terrain]).
 
Top