motion non turreted tank Dfire mods?

Gunner Scott

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So I can not recall the rules but if a motion non turreted tank fires it suffers: +2 motion, doubling of the lower die, buttoned up. Is that it? of course it suffers the targets mods but I'm more concerned with the AFV's own mods.

thanks
 

jrv

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Motion or non-stopped NT TH DRM: +2 case B, +3 case C, +double the lower dr, plus anything else that applies (e.g. BU, limited time in LOS).

JR
 
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Jacometti

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Motion or non-stopped NT TH DRM: +2 case B, +3 case C, +double the lower dr, plus anything else that applies (e.g. BU, limited time in LOS)]

What are the mods if the motion tank fires during Defensive Final fire?

Is it not only +2 and double lower dr (as per motion counter)?
 

jrv

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What are the mods if the motion tank fires during Defensive Final fire?

Is it not only +2 and double lower dr (as per motion counter)?
I can't figure out what the Motion counter is trying to say. All Motion fire is affected by C⁴, which says [C5.35] that the attack doubles the lower dr and adds C or C¹ or C² as appropriate. The use of C, C¹ or C² invokes case B, making the DRM as I suggested (or the way I remember it, +4 for turreted + double lower dr for turreted fire, +5 + double for NT, unless there is a Gyrostabilizer or the firer is in woods/building/rubble).

There is a q&a sort of on the matter:

q&a said:
C5.35 & D2.42 A vehicle is marked with a motion counter and in the DFPh fires its Main Armament at an infantry target (it does not have a stabilized gun). D2.42 states that Case C4 must be applied to the To Hit DR because the vehicle is in motion. When applying C4 which of the following is correct?

A. The only modifier is the doubling of the lower dr because Cases C, C1 and C2 are only applicable in the vehicle’s own movement phase.
B. The lower dr should be doubled and Case C (including Case B) applies because in rule C5.35 the words “if applicable” only relate to Cases C1 and C2.
C. The lower dr should be doubled and Case C (including Case B) applies for some other reason I cannot find in the rules.

A. B.
This does not offer the option that seems to be offered on the counter, but I can't see any way to re-create the combination on the counter. If you don't include case C, you don't get case B. If you include case C, you get +4 or +5, not +2. The C5.35 EX does not specify what phase the attack occurs in, but I think it is correct for all Motion/Non-Stopped attacks.

JR
 

jrv

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I have always thought that the +2 on the counter is supposed to be for Case J as in D2.41.
The case J is as a target, not as a firer. The other two are items printed are firer penalties. That is not to say that you are wrong, but it's a bit surprising that the counter has the doubling of lower dr but nothing about the other parts of C for a firer, including case B. Still it's possible, and if that answer is accepted it does avoid having to explain the +2 as a firer penalty.

JR
 

Magpie

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The case J is as a target, not as a firer. The other two are items printed are firer penalties. That is not to say that you are wrong, but it's a bit surprising that the counter has the doubling of lower dr but nothing about the other parts of C for a firer, including case B. Still it's possible, and if that answer is accepted it does avoid having to explain the +2 as a firer penalty.

JR

There's only so much you can fit on a counter.
The three items provide a jog of the memory of the implications of being in motion, not a comprehensive index of everything
 

Jacometti

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So a BU motion StuG would fire with a +6 modifier and double the lower die.

Would hit a stationary Sherman at 6 hexes with Snake Eyes or 3 DR only.

Not impressive and strange to me it is the same to hit probability as an Adv Fire shot after moving 8 hexes, firing a Smoke Dispenser, and staying in motion after racing into view around a corner.

Seems more logical that the tank that does nothing in the enemy player turn except take the shot would have a better chance to hit.
 

Magpie

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e
So a BU motion StuG would fire with a +6 modifier and double the lower die.

Would hit a stationary Sherman at 6 hexes with Snake Eyes or 3 DR only.

Not impressive and strange to me it is the same to hit probability as an Adv Fire shot after moving 8 hexes, firing a Smoke Dispenser, and staying in motion after racing into view around a corner.

Seems more logical that the tank that does nothing in the enemy player turn except take the shot would have a better chance to hit.
The Stug isn't doing nothing though, being in motion means it is moving. The only real difference is that it isn't firing the sD.
 
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