Motion/Non-Stopped

AZslim

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All,
If a vehicle pays to stop, eligible infantry do not pay the +2 for CC against it,
correct? ie, Street fighting, CC reaction fire. More broadly, I have always
argued that when a rule specifically says Motion/Non-Stopped, when a
vehicle pays the stop MP, it no longer applies. Example, are CC, FT, MOl.
Case L instantly applies. Using this "rule of thumb" seems to work. Any place
where it doesn't?
 

CKS04

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All,
If a vehicle pays to stop, eligible infantry do not pay the +2 for CC against it,
correct? ie, Street fighting, CC reaction fire. More broadly, I have always
argued that when a rule specifically says Motion/Non-Stopped, when a
vehicle pays the stop MP, it no longer applies. Example, are CC, FT, MOl.
Case L instantly applies. Using this "rule of thumb" seems to work. Any place
where it doesn't?
Best example is Defensive Fire against an AFV which moved in its MPh but then payed an MP to stop. This AFV ist still an moving Target for Defensive Fire purposes.

CK
 

JD Sullivan

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The vehicle is considered "moving" until the end of the moving player's Player Turn (C.8).

Fires from the vehicle which moved that occur during the Advance Phase are considered Bounding First Fire(C5.3) which reinforces C.8.
 

Sparafucil3

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All,
If a vehicle pays to stop, eligible infantry do not pay the +2 for CC against it,
correct? ie, Street fighting, CC reaction fire.
Correct.
More broadly, I have always
argued that when a rule specifically says Motion/Non-Stopped, when a
vehicle pays the stop MP, it no longer applies. Example, are CC, FT, MOl.
Case L instantly applies. Using this "rule of thumb" seems to work. Any place
where it doesn't?
Also correct, although you may be applying the rule too broadly. For instance, Case J applies throughout the movement phase if a vehicle began the phase in motion or entered a new hex during the phase. The rule book tends to blur the line between "moving" and "moving target." Have a look at this thread for more information on this topic. I found it to be one of the most confusing parts of the rules when I was first learning. -- jim
 

AZslim

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Best example is Defensive Fire against an AFV which moved in its MPh but then payed an MP to stop. This AFV ist still an moving Target for Defensive Fire purposes.

CK
I'm talking about exceptions to this. I believe CC reaction fire is not penalized
the instant the vehicle pays to stop. Motion status is clear in the rules and
non-stpped status is clear in the rules......so motion/non-stopped to me
means if the vehicle pays stop the penalties don't apply for certian actions.
The classic example is case C4, the doubling of the lower die for a shot.
 

AZslim

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Correct.

Also correct, although you may be applying the rule too broadly. For instance, Case J applies throughout the movement phase if a vehicle began the phase in motion or entered a new hex during the phase. The rule book tends to blur the line between "moving" and "moving target." Have a look at this thread for more information on this topic. I found it to be one of the most confusing parts of the rules when I was first learning. -- jim
Thanks.
Actually. If I think of infantry movement as an exception, it helps me a lot.
If we are only talking about vehicles, they are always a moving target
under case C.8 unless the rules say motion/nonstopped. In those cases
the instant the vehicle pays to stop, the the penalties cease. I can't think
of a case where this doesn't work.
 

Sparafucil3

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Thanks.
Actually. If I think of infantry movement as an exception, it helps me a lot.
If we are only talking about vehicles, they are always a moving target
under case C.8 unless the rules say motion/nonstopped. In those cases
the instant the vehicle pays to stop, the the penalties cease. I can't think
of a case where this doesn't work.
If it works for you, and you are getting it right, stick with it. I am not sure from what you wrote here and maybe it's the medium we are using. Are you contending that a vehicle which is stopped, did not enter a new hex this turn, and did not begin the turn in motion, is considered a moving target? I guess I am being confused by the statement "they are always a moving target under case C.8 unless the rules say motion/nonstopped." -- jim
 

AZslim

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If it works for you, and you are getting it right, stick with it. I am not sure from what you wrote here and maybe it's the medium we are using. Are you contending that a vehicle which is stopped, did not enter a new hex this turn, and did not begin the turn in motion, is considered a moving target? I guess I am being confused by the statement "they are always a moving target under case C.8 unless the rules say motion/nonstopped." -- jim
No, sorry. I meant once they are considered a moving taregt under C.8,
the exceptions happen if the rules say motion/non-stopped.
 

Sparafucil3

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No, sorry. I meant once they are considered a moving taregt under C.8, the exceptions happen if the rules say motion/non-stopped.
OK. Just to be pedantic though, there is a difference between "moving" and "moving target." Thats the part that makes this all so confusing. It is possible to be "moving" (ie: non-stopped) and not be a "moving target" (ie: Case J is NA). Too bad they did not chose a set of words that are not so close to one another. -- jim
 

Ole Boe

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Jim has it right.

"moving" and "moving target" are two different things, and they are again completely different than "Motion" or "Non-Stopped". The correct is something like this:

moving: a unit that is currently executing ITS MPh.

Motion: a vehicle that is not moving and not Stopped

Non-Stopped: a vehicle that is moving and not Stopped

Moving Target: a vehicle that is/has been in Motion and/or entered a new hex/used VBM this Player Turn.


Note that Motion and Non-Stopped are almost the same, just that the term changes from Motion to Non-Stopped when ITS MPh starts, and then changes back to Motion when ITS MPh ends (assuming it doesn't begin or end ITS MPh Stopped of course).

Also note that a vehicle immediately stops being moving, Motion and Non-stopped when it changes state (ends ITS MPh, stops or stops respectively), while Moving Target lasts at least througout the AFPh of that Player Turn.
 
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