DVexile
Senior Member
If attacking an AFV with an ATT attack with a mortar does the TH DR or the IFT DR determine whether the hit is turret or hull?
The RB, tables, and SK are a bit contradictory.
C.1 INDIRECT FIRE states: All ASL references to Indirect Fire apply to both OBA and mortars, although onboard mortars must secure hits using the To Hit Table in the same manner as Direct Fire weapons.
Table C7.7 note E for the Indirect Fire column states: Use Original IFT DR for Hit Location (C1.55)
The above imply you use the IFT DR for a Mortar, though one might argue that if target location is part of the "to hit table" so it would be the TH DR. But the note could then have been more specific and said "Use Original IFT DR for OBA Hit location" but doesn't make that distinction.
C3.332 states: An Area Target Type hit vs vehicles is resolved as per 1.55.
C1.55 states: Use the OBA's original IFT DR vs an AFV to determine the hit location (3.9) of that OBA attack.
This does not specifically state "ATT" or even "Indirect Fire" but instead "OBA". So does C3.332 intend for all ATT to use the IFT DR instead of the TH DR or is it just referring to the rest of C1.55?
C3.9 states: An ordnance hit vs a vehicle strikes its turret/upper-superstructure Aspect if the colored DR of the Original TH DR is < white dr.
C.2 ORDNANCE: Any weapon that must secure a hit on a To Hit Table before resolving the effect of that hit on either the IFT or To Kill Table is termed ordnance.
This makes absolutely no mention of Target Type or Indirect Fire. It implies any "ordnance hit" uses the TH DR and a Mortar is ordnance.
3.332 EX states: A Russian 76mm Gun uses the Area Target Type... The Original TH DR's colored DR is < its white dr, so the take is a hit.
This seems to say that at least ATT attacks that aren't a mortar use the TH DR.
Chapter K, page K37, 2nd column, 4th Paragraph (discussing the TH DR for a mortar on a tank): Note that our colored die was greater than or equal to the white die. That means we scored a hull hit.
This seems to say mortars use the TH DR.
And finally, stepping now over to SK, the SK3 AFV DESTRUCTION TABLE doesn't have an "Indirect Column" but instead an "Area Target Type" column with a note that says again "Use the original IFT DR for hit location".
This seems to have gone out of the way to explicitly make ATT not use the TH DR despite the fact that there is no OBA at all in SK and it would have been simpler to have just left the TH DR to make the location determination.
Honestly, this isn't a particularly big deal as long as parties agree before hand. To me it would sort of make sense that if you already have a TH DR then might as well use that for location and that OBA is the exception since there is no TH DR so it uses the IFT DR. The ASLRB example and the Chapter K seem to contradict the SK3 table note, but it sure seems like someone went out of the way to put that SK3 note in.
Couldn't find a Perry Sez on this...
The RB, tables, and SK are a bit contradictory.
C.1 INDIRECT FIRE states: All ASL references to Indirect Fire apply to both OBA and mortars, although onboard mortars must secure hits using the To Hit Table in the same manner as Direct Fire weapons.
Table C7.7 note E for the Indirect Fire column states: Use Original IFT DR for Hit Location (C1.55)
The above imply you use the IFT DR for a Mortar, though one might argue that if target location is part of the "to hit table" so it would be the TH DR. But the note could then have been more specific and said "Use Original IFT DR for OBA Hit location" but doesn't make that distinction.
C3.332 states: An Area Target Type hit vs vehicles is resolved as per 1.55.
C1.55 states: Use the OBA's original IFT DR vs an AFV to determine the hit location (3.9) of that OBA attack.
This does not specifically state "ATT" or even "Indirect Fire" but instead "OBA". So does C3.332 intend for all ATT to use the IFT DR instead of the TH DR or is it just referring to the rest of C1.55?
C3.9 states: An ordnance hit vs a vehicle strikes its turret/upper-superstructure Aspect if the colored DR of the Original TH DR is < white dr.
C.2 ORDNANCE: Any weapon that must secure a hit on a To Hit Table before resolving the effect of that hit on either the IFT or To Kill Table is termed ordnance.
This makes absolutely no mention of Target Type or Indirect Fire. It implies any "ordnance hit" uses the TH DR and a Mortar is ordnance.
3.332 EX states: A Russian 76mm Gun uses the Area Target Type... The Original TH DR's colored DR is < its white dr, so the take is a hit.
This seems to say that at least ATT attacks that aren't a mortar use the TH DR.
Chapter K, page K37, 2nd column, 4th Paragraph (discussing the TH DR for a mortar on a tank): Note that our colored die was greater than or equal to the white die. That means we scored a hull hit.
This seems to say mortars use the TH DR.
And finally, stepping now over to SK, the SK3 AFV DESTRUCTION TABLE doesn't have an "Indirect Column" but instead an "Area Target Type" column with a note that says again "Use the original IFT DR for hit location".
This seems to have gone out of the way to explicitly make ATT not use the TH DR despite the fact that there is no OBA at all in SK and it would have been simpler to have just left the TH DR to make the location determination.
Honestly, this isn't a particularly big deal as long as parties agree before hand. To me it would sort of make sense that if you already have a TH DR then might as well use that for location and that OBA is the exception since there is no TH DR so it uses the IFT DR. The ASLRB example and the Chapter K seem to contradict the SK3 table note, but it sure seems like someone went out of the way to put that SK3 note in.
Couldn't find a Perry Sez on this...