More thoughts on the Scenario Designers Guide

Coenedens

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
211
Reaction score
0
Location
Italy
Country
llItaly
[...]
Even to represent all the different TO&Es for the major nationalities of the conflict down to the squad level would take up a tremendous amount of space.
[...]
You are right, I've come to the very same conclusion. If we look back to Panzer Leader I have to admit that it shows only US, British and German divisions (and not every kind of them). ASL represents every nationality and it's huge, indeed.

Thank you,
Ale
 

Coenedens

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
211
Reaction score
0
Location
Italy
Country
llItaly
The SASL rules are also pretty decent for getting a the types/number of counters to use for basic companies for the various nationalities. You have to know how to scale up and what heavy weapons to add for larger formations, but they're still good building blocks to use. Often there are different versions given for different years.

I think the Italians are covered in SASL2 so there should be a basic company in there.
SASL (and SASL2 if it matters) is the only MMP/AH ASL product (along with the DeLuxe Modules) that I do not have got... Ach... I knew I was missing something valuable...!!!

Ale
 

SamB

Shut up and play!
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
6,791
Reaction score
384
Location
Seattle, Washington,
Country
llUnited States
"running tentatively amok"

I believe we have a winner in the "name that scenario" contest!!
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
I just took another look at lulu.com at the "Scenario Designers Guide".

Isn't the title incorrect?

SCENARIO DESIGNERS GUIDE implies a book about the people that design scenarios. SCENARIO DESIGNER'S GUIDE (with an apostrophe) would, I think, be correct here - i.e. a guide for someone wanting to be one of those people.

I also note there are no reviews of the book up at lulu. Was there are any other community feedback on this product? It hasn't been discussed much in recent days.
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I just took another look at lulu.com at the "Scenario Designers Guide".

Isn't the title incorrect?

SCENARIO DESIGNERS GUIDE implies a book about the people that design scenarios. SCENARIO DESIGNER'S GUIDE (with an apostrophe) would, I think, be correct here - i.e. a guide for someone wanting to be one of those people.
Now you are trying to pick grammar nits with me? You must really be jonesing for arguments to worry about that.

However, the title is correct as is. It is a guide for scenario designers. It is not a guide belonging to scenario designers, which would require the apostrophe, because it would be the possessive case.

"Scenario Designers Guide" is not an example of the possessive, it is an example of the adjectival label (also called attributive noun). These do not have apostrophes.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
The book seems to have dropped off the radar, just wondering what some of the other feedback was (outside of Italy ;) now that others have had a chance to digest it. If I wanted to pick nits, I'd mention the non-justified text, which admittedly can be a stylistic choice, or the non-superscripted trademark symbol.

I'm looking at publishing more books via lulu myself, so am curious about the feedback process at the site - if there is a reason no one has left a review there, I'd be interested in that (clunky interface, necessity of a credit card account, etc.)
 
Last edited:

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I'd have to log in and check, but I think I disabled it, to prevent someone like HWSNBN from trying to sabotage it. Can't remember for sure.

I don't know to what extent it was ever on the radar, but it still sells steadily.

The feedback I've gotten back from it has been awesome. I have been really pleased. Some people did not like the images in there, apparently because they didn't realize they were deliberately digitally manipulated images but thought that they were photocopied images or something like that. A couple of people did not like the non-justified text, which you mentioned, which surprised me. A few people thought the font should have been smaller, which also surprised me.

But most people seem to have really liked it, based on the e-mails I've gotten, as well as personal comments. I think I have kept all the feedback that was e-mailed to me (as opposed to PMs here, which I did not keep). I've been meaning to post quotations from the feedback on my website, like "reader testimonials."
 

Doug Kirk

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
1,901
Reaction score
487
Location
Columbia, MO
Country
llUnited States
I just finished JAVA 1, The IJA's Last Battle, one of the scenarios from the back of the design guide. This was a nice scenario for its size, I would highly recommend it. It is a good "after-work" scenario. My Indonesians had the early luck and rolled some 2 or 3s for KIAs early. The Japanese pressed on however. The last turn they banzai'd into my last two victory locations and then rolled a pair of 3s in the advancing fire phase. My guys broke, of course, without even getting to roll the bones in CC.
 

wrongway149

Forum Guru
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,403
Reaction score
2,099
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Mark

I wasn't looking about historical information, I hoped for ideas that could help me out with order of battle. I'm currently reserching the exploits of XMAS division battalions (Axis post '43) and italian raggruppamenti (Allies post '43). It is very difficult to determine the best counter types to use. I have very detailed official and unofficial sources for number of men, type of official and "borrowed" weapons of these units, but I've got problems deciding which counters using.
Obviously I wasn't looking for an aswer to my very particular problem, but I hoped to understand the logic (if any) that scenario-designers use for choosing the counter-type.
Use whatever works, or 'feels' right. Thinking too much about squad complements or weapon types can only hurt your scenario. It is more art than science, so there is really no 'universal formula' .

For example, remember that a squad with high firepower and short range can be representative of those units that preferred close combat to firefights (such as Paratroopers). These values are based as much on training as weapon type.

Same with leaders - What mix is most likely to produce the desired results in game terms? A 10-2 can simulate an NCO who is having a really good day, or Col. Darby on an average day. A force that wasn't having a particulary good day offensively but stayed in the fight longer than expected could be better represented with a plethora of mediocre leaders, while one that was dishing it out but not taking it well could be simulated with a few good leaders. This would not be reflected by any official TO & E.

To be sure, there would be other ways to simulate these criteria (ELR,fanaticism per SSR), because the ASL orchestra gives the composer many choices.

Frankly, I can't see what takes up 72 pages to describe, but some people just like to read ASL stuff.:eek:
 

James Taylor

I love women with brains
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
6,486
Reaction score
377
Location
Michigan
Country
llUnited States
Frankly, I can't see what takes up 72 pages to describe, but some people just like to read ASL stuff.:eek:
72 pages on scenario design seems *brief* compared to the length of the ...18 thread!

And don't forget the forest of virtual trees that have been mowed down in the name of resolving the IIFT vs IFT debate!

Proof positive that ASL fanatics have an addiction for which there is no 10 step program.

"Hello, my name is James Taylor... and I am an ASL player." :clap: :clap: :clap:

JT
 

Jo.B

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
451
Reaction score
93
Location
Province Tirol
Country
llAustria
Its a Shame!

a Shame that there are no books about ASL.
Anybody knows how much nonsense books about exotical
hobbies are placed in the bookshopshelves.
Foolish ones about any origami, ancient cars , or even
chess-puzzles. Isn't it in a public interest to show how
solving a self-stalemate in 9 ?
How about 'ASL for dummies', 'Zen or the art of playing ASL'
'The great Book of Oranizing ASL-Counters'...


When one would come to a Book-Publisher with a preorderlist
I think the call him just crazy and dont beleave him.

regardles pitmans book is good or bad , its the right direction
and I like to congratulate him to this courageous step.

:hush:
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I just finished JAVA 1, The IJA's Last Battle, one of the scenarios from the back of the design guide. This was a nice scenario for its size, I would highly recommend it. It is a good "after-work" scenario. My Indonesians had the early luck and rolled some 2 or 3s for KIAs early. The Japanese pressed on however. The last turn they banzai'd into my last two victory locations and then rolled a pair of 3s in the advancing fire phase. My guys broke, of course, without even getting to roll the bones in CC.
Hey, Doug, I'm glad you liked it! That sounds like a pretty exciting playing. I like that scenario a lot; lots of fun things can happen there.

Would you do me a big favor, pretty please? Would you report the playing to ROAR? I think a lot of people are forgetting those scenarios are in the guide! :)
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
Its a Shame!

a Shame that there are no books about ASL.
Anybody knows how much nonsense books about exotical
hobbies are placed in the bookshopshelves.
Foolish ones about any origami, ancient cars , or even
chess-puzzles. Isn't it in a public interest to show how
solving a self-stalemate in 9 ?
How about 'ASL for dummies', 'Zen or the art of playing ASL'
'The great Book of Oranizing ASL-Counters'...


When one would come to a Book-Publisher with a preorderlist
I think the call him just crazy and dont beleave him.

regardles pitmans book is good or bad , its the right direction
and I like to congratulate him to this courageous step.

:hush:
With regard to the last point, the book is good, of course! :)

As to your first point, you are exactly right. There is considerable room for game-play literature on ASL.

I am trying to contribute to that with my next project, which will be a book-length "strategy guide" for ASL. It is about half-through, and already longer than the Scenario Designers Guide.

I hope that more people will consider projects like this. There's a lot of room for writing stuff about ASL, and I love reading stuff about ASL.
 

Portal

The Eminem of ASL
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
4,348
Reaction score
56
Location
Calgary
Country
llCanada
There is definitely room for an "Advanced Squad Leader for Dummies" series title.

If the Dungeons & Dragons and Vampire: the Masquerade RPGs can have such books, and with ASL's Great Tome, there is definitely room for it.
 

rdw5150

it's just a game
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
8,288
Reaction score
941
Location
Erie, PA
First name
Roger
Country
llUnited States
"I hope that more people will consider projects like this. There's a lot of room for writing stuff about ASL, and I love reading stuff about ASL."

Sadly, I do no consider mylsef well enough versed in ASL to write much on it. I am still kicking around an "ASLSK to ASL Journal" type idea, but I am not certain I have the skills.

Peace

Roger
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,765
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Seems to me we had an ASL Wiki idea here last year that was still-born since no one felt they had much to contribute? But if anyone wanted to practice their writing skills, there is that, and Wikipedia. If you can put up with more rules than even ASL has. ;) The latter not for tactical guides but for general interest stuff. The ASL-specific wiki seemed very open-ended, but no one seemed to get behind it - or has that changed? Haven't visited in a while. I think MMP wisely declined participation due to the spectre of having to police it. Guess they saw what happens on this forum. :)
 

wrongway149

Forum Guru
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,403
Reaction score
2,099
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Seems to me we had an ASL Wiki idea here last year that was still-born since no one felt they had much to contribute? But if anyone wanted to practice their writing skills, there is that, and Wikipedia. If you can put up with more rules than even ASL has. ;) The latter not for tactical guides but for general interest stuff. The ASL-specific wiki seemed very open-ended, but no one seemed to get behind it - or has that changed? Haven't visited in a while. I think MMP wisely declined participation due to the spectre of having to police it. Guess they saw what happens on this forum. :)
I added my solution to the tactical puzzle presented. I expected some argument,on THAT, at least, but didn't get any.

(I wasn't even the Grofaz slayer back then.):surprise:
 
Last edited:

Doug Kirk

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
1,901
Reaction score
487
Location
Columbia, MO
Country
llUnited States
Would you do me a big favor, pretty please? Would you report the playing to ROAR? I think a lot of people are forgetting those scenarios are in the guide! :)
Already Done! I report all my games to ROAR.
 
Top