Why would you release such a shitty system on the market? Are you ignorant of technological advangtages in wargaming technology or are you just trying to fleece money from old board gamers? This system is complete **** compared to Kroger's TOAW and yet $50 dollar turds keep getting poped out. I believe you're lieing about research done on the OOBs and topography. I think your A.I is total trash. Splash, this system and all its stinky refuse are sickening to us truely interested in wargaming and hex/turn based gaming in general.
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- Thread starter goomohn
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Compass Rose
Member
All I'm going to say is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it is very apparent that you are not seeing the beauty. John Tiller games are very enjoyable games, don't require you to go out and buy a new computer every time they release a new title, and they have the best customer service in the market! They would not be in business for 10+ years if they didn't offer good and enjoyable games with 1st class customer service! They also support all of their games, not just some of them!
If you are spending $50 for a game, then you aren't as smart as you are trying to make yourself sound. If you don't like the games, sell them and move on. They will sell very quickly on Ebay and Amazon as long as you are asking the normal market price.
If you are spending $50 for a game, then you aren't as smart as you are trying to make yourself sound. If you don't like the games, sell them and move on. They will sell very quickly on Ebay and Amazon as long as you are asking the normal market price.
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eastwindrain
Member
Funny but Kroger's original game TOAW 1 followed by TOAW 2 and TOAW 3 and was'nt their a deluxe thingy before the Matrix version which added together must have cost a lotta gamer's serious money.
I had the deluxe thingy then bought the Matrix version but somehow I just cannot get into this game.
I'm a Mr John Tiller and Mr Gary Grigsby's fan !!!.
So if someone is still reading this I will swap Matrix TOAW 3 ( the download version on a rather bland disc but 100% OK ) AND Matrix & 2by3 games WitP ( DVD boxed version ) for any 1 of the following HPSSIMS games , Red Victory, Spanish Civil War, Winter War or Defending the Reich.
Recently bought a new pc so did'nt bother re-installing the above wargames.
Send me a email or post here if interested, surely if TOAW 3 is soooo good I won't have to wait tooo looooong !!!.
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eastwindrain
Member
Whaaaat, absolutely no response whatsoever for this amazing game swap, WTF maybe tomorrow.
eastwindrain
Member
Another day and still no response whatsoever, does'nt anyone believe in goomohn's Kruger's TOAW 3 recommendation, surely this is not the NORM.
The **** will hit the fan real soon.
The **** will hit the fan real soon.
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This engine and Squad battles make a good couple. Panzer/Modern campaigns and this engine go sour. Yeah $50 dollars for a well implemented nearly bugless operational system that can cover any 19/20th century battle. Or, $50 dollars each for one operational campaign (although with alot of content per campaign) that is buggy and lacks an intuitive A.I. Hands down TOAW3 is best.
trauth116
Webmaster: hist-sdc.com
lol ... man I bet your other post (outside of this thread) must be pretty good...
eastwindrain
Member
It's real good to live in a time where we are all spoilt for choice and can pick and choose from a massive range of video games, but also have the leisure time to pbem against like minded folks Worldwide.
Mini-Me
Senior Member
Guess I'm simple minded and not fond of technology. Been playing Tiller's games since 2004 and still enjoy them more than any other I have.
Marshal Lannes
Member
If you want to experience , " Rip- Off" - you only need to go to a gamestore that still sell board hex games. The games are sloppily produced and I suppose aimed at 12 year olds as the graphics are always nice and bright. You are expected to pay at least $80.00 for a lazy treatment of a battle or campaign. The counters are designed to appeal to toddlers and the rule books are expansive but drivel loaded. The map sheets are basic. Once you have learned how to play one John Tiller game - then you are set to play all of them albeit for minor additions.
I certainly understand the initial reaction of someone who does not realise that these games are , " Genre Specific " titles and are purposefully meant to be that way. Fortunately in these times, if you do not like something, you can swap it or sell and someone will buy it.
I have lost count of the number of juicy video game titles that I have bought which turn out to be dog-doo. The cossacks titles are a perfect example. There are huge fans and massive popularity of games produced by some guy called Thiebault or whatever, where you get to move american civil war or Napoleonic portraits over a mediocre battlemap of zones and then the computer whizzes through the battle with no input from you. You may as well buy a computer that can scratch your butt to save you the trouble and tedium of doing it yourself. They sell for $50- $60 and you have to wonder what sort of edge of the chin drooler will buy this sort of game. Well; I actually bought the Campaigns of Napoleon one, but in my defence, only for £2.99, but I was tempted by the display marketing at £24.99.
I would not be surprised if a lot of gamers out there actually enjoy a more relaxed sort of game. I won't mention the game, but I really like playing a game from the late 90's which is totally superceded by it's modern versions. The reason I play it is because it is more truer to hex style play and it is huge and involving . The full version takes an age to play and the combat system is deviously fiendish, it just draws you in. No fancy graphics, quite good sound, but deviously hard in places.
The reason I play John Tiller games is because they are absorbing, are true to their specific genre. The battle maps are generally huge and cover a lot of battles and scenarios and I guess, in a way are not designed for lollipop suckers who cannot scratch their butts in time to loud explosions, fancy graphics and mood music.
The funny thing is that if suddenly John Tiller games were no longer produced, second-hand titles would not only be hard to get ,especially if you want a specific one, but within a year, $80-$90 will be the norm, with the more popular titles going for $120 and maybe more.
I certainly understand the initial reaction of someone who does not realise that these games are , " Genre Specific " titles and are purposefully meant to be that way. Fortunately in these times, if you do not like something, you can swap it or sell and someone will buy it.
I have lost count of the number of juicy video game titles that I have bought which turn out to be dog-doo. The cossacks titles are a perfect example. There are huge fans and massive popularity of games produced by some guy called Thiebault or whatever, where you get to move american civil war or Napoleonic portraits over a mediocre battlemap of zones and then the computer whizzes through the battle with no input from you. You may as well buy a computer that can scratch your butt to save you the trouble and tedium of doing it yourself. They sell for $50- $60 and you have to wonder what sort of edge of the chin drooler will buy this sort of game. Well; I actually bought the Campaigns of Napoleon one, but in my defence, only for £2.99, but I was tempted by the display marketing at £24.99.
I would not be surprised if a lot of gamers out there actually enjoy a more relaxed sort of game. I won't mention the game, but I really like playing a game from the late 90's which is totally superceded by it's modern versions. The reason I play it is because it is more truer to hex style play and it is huge and involving . The full version takes an age to play and the combat system is deviously fiendish, it just draws you in. No fancy graphics, quite good sound, but deviously hard in places.
The reason I play John Tiller games is because they are absorbing, are true to their specific genre. The battle maps are generally huge and cover a lot of battles and scenarios and I guess, in a way are not designed for lollipop suckers who cannot scratch their butts in time to loud explosions, fancy graphics and mood music.
The funny thing is that if suddenly John Tiller games were no longer produced, second-hand titles would not only be hard to get ,especially if you want a specific one, but within a year, $80-$90 will be the norm, with the more popular titles going for $120 and maybe more.
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I only posted the origional post because no one had answered my simple question earlier on the board. I figured vinegar would catch more flies and was right. I was also right about TOAW3 being a better detailed and greater all around hex/turn engine than TOCs. I played Konrad I in PzCs Budapest '45 and the Soviets were shuffling back. One turn they'd Stack a brigade sized force in a hex the next they're out to the wings (the A.I. is trash). In Markget-Garden the German A.I. rolls toward the highway in column formation. Easily overtaken by the superior numbers of the Brits and a half witted player.
In TOAW3 the victory conditions don't have to be over-dramatized. You don't need to roll in 100kms and destroy 5:1 to get a major victory. The A.I. in TOAW is in tune with the game engine cause it was built for that specific engine. The specific rules make more sense in TOAW3 (detailed unit formations, within hex waterways, phased time turns, etc.).
TOCs are alot of fun. I'm playing NGP85 and the A.I. is actually in battle lines in spots (prolly because they're fixed...) and my Soviet force is being slowed. Maybe Tiller did a rewrite for MC that has left PzCs in the dust. Also, the designers are very good for TOCs. Definitley more money in these games than TOAW3 which is backshelf at Matrix Games.
Hopefully, Hex/Turn is not pettering out of fashion. I really like involved wargaming that RTS cannot offer. Command overview which isometric wargames cannot offer. Basic system requirements that high tech games can't meet.
In TOAW3 the victory conditions don't have to be over-dramatized. You don't need to roll in 100kms and destroy 5:1 to get a major victory. The A.I. in TOAW is in tune with the game engine cause it was built for that specific engine. The specific rules make more sense in TOAW3 (detailed unit formations, within hex waterways, phased time turns, etc.).
TOCs are alot of fun. I'm playing NGP85 and the A.I. is actually in battle lines in spots (prolly because they're fixed...) and my Soviet force is being slowed. Maybe Tiller did a rewrite for MC that has left PzCs in the dust. Also, the designers are very good for TOCs. Definitley more money in these games than TOAW3 which is backshelf at Matrix Games.
Hopefully, Hex/Turn is not pettering out of fashion. I really like involved wargaming that RTS cannot offer. Command overview which isometric wargames cannot offer. Basic system requirements that high tech games can't meet.
Marshal Lannes
Member
As far as I am aware, these games are produced by hobbyists, strictly on a part-time basis. Budget is limited and they do so because they enjoy doing so. This is not Sega or Paradox, whose employees have basement Jacuzzi's, sport's cars and a budget to employ technical whizz-kids on huge salaries. But even Paradox stuffs up it's A.I. and puts out games with major glitches which you only find out about after 50 hours of play, where you have finely tuned your armies and technology etc to find out that the Soviets have crap all defenses, do not attach artillery, the supply system is flawed and the A.I. sucks, whereas in an earlier version it was quite good etc etc.
How can one guy, a hobbyist who has a full-time job do the A.I. as it stands for all the games produced..........I can only imagine how tedious it must be.....I could not do it.
That said, I would love to see a fantastic and challenging A.I. system, but unleess a major concern like Paradox or Sega do it....it's not going to happen and anyhow, they will not do it, as the profit margin for them is mouselike.................so I say a big Hug and Congrats for the guys who are actually doing this, for the simple reason, that nobody else will......and if we have nothing at all.....then that means nothing...............You can play the games against yourself, as many do or you can have a brilliant game against another intelligent human player which would make any A.I. produced by the big-hitters look inadequate. The price reflects the exclusivity- why would anyone pay millions of dollars for a painting by Picasso or Dali when they look crap and the equivalent can be seen in any primary children's school -wall.
Another thing to soften the vinegar is that these games are not psychologically addictive. Addiction droolers cannot be made. As an aside; there was an article I read which sticks in the mind ,namely, that 7% of divorce cases in England, last year, had the female claimant cite their partners addiction to video-games as valid reason for separation.....OMG.....incroyable .......Jon Tiller games do not psychologically damage people, especially young children or destroy families............I shall continue to play them, no doubt about that....................inadequate A.I or not.....................
How can one guy, a hobbyist who has a full-time job do the A.I. as it stands for all the games produced..........I can only imagine how tedious it must be.....I could not do it.
That said, I would love to see a fantastic and challenging A.I. system, but unleess a major concern like Paradox or Sega do it....it's not going to happen and anyhow, they will not do it, as the profit margin for them is mouselike.................so I say a big Hug and Congrats for the guys who are actually doing this, for the simple reason, that nobody else will......and if we have nothing at all.....then that means nothing...............You can play the games against yourself, as many do or you can have a brilliant game against another intelligent human player which would make any A.I. produced by the big-hitters look inadequate. The price reflects the exclusivity- why would anyone pay millions of dollars for a painting by Picasso or Dali when they look crap and the equivalent can be seen in any primary children's school -wall.
Another thing to soften the vinegar is that these games are not psychologically addictive. Addiction droolers cannot be made. As an aside; there was an article I read which sticks in the mind ,namely, that 7% of divorce cases in England, last year, had the female claimant cite their partners addiction to video-games as valid reason for separation.....OMG.....incroyable .......Jon Tiller games do not psychologically damage people, especially young children or destroy families............I shall continue to play them, no doubt about that....................inadequate A.I or not.....................
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Mini-Me
Senior Member
WHen you play these games using PBEM, I think you'll see the real beauty of the system.
Sgt_Rock
Member
I am not so sure that the price would jump on the games THAT much but one thing is for sure - very few games have ever had the kind of support that they have.
I have played the Panzer Campaigns series since the first game came out and along with the windowed style of interface really enjoy this series. One of the biggest reasons why I play them is that I do not care much for full windowed games. I play the Matrix John Tiller Campaign series a bit and dink around with other games but a windowed game for me is where it is at. I can reduce it quickly and do something else for a bit and then come back and finish my move. For longer solo games it is much easier on my eyes to play a JTS game than most others on the market.
I have played the Panzer Campaigns series since the first game came out and along with the windowed style of interface really enjoy this series. One of the biggest reasons why I play them is that I do not care much for full windowed games. I play the Matrix John Tiller Campaign series a bit and dink around with other games but a windowed game for me is where it is at. I can reduce it quickly and do something else for a bit and then come back and finish my move. For longer solo games it is much easier on my eyes to play a JTS game than most others on the market.