More from Wild Bill

Michael Dorosh

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But if you did make a "contest" out of it, there are a few "ASL" charities deserving of some money.

ALS is, I believe, MMP's charity of choice.

Kerry's church in Spokane.

And Tinnitus was Jim McLeod's charity.

Nuff said.
 

AZslim

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Well, you've questioned his parentage in open forum, mis-represented his wargaming and publishing background on a universally read review site, harshly criticized his products on a widely read gaming forum, and issued an all-points consumer bulletin in the online ASL Encyclopedia warning away all comers. I think that pretty much covers all the bases, and any reasonable course of action open to you, given he's done nothing illegal or immoral.
Could have been worse. He could have opened an account on a porn site under Wild Bill's real name.
 
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James Taylor

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I mean, the implication has been that it doesn't require any actual rules design knowledge, playtesting, or special art skill. And you may even make some money at it. Issue the monkeys their marching orders.

You know - one might even consider making a forum contest out of it. :laugh:
Why? So someone can come in and plagarize someone else's work and waste the time of those actually investing their time? No thanks.

The agony of scruples.
Scruples? You mean those things that might prevent someone from plagarizing another's work and submitting it as their own? For some reason I doubt you have to worry too much about agony from them.

This guy, "Wild Bill" is a con-artist who is all about taking advantage of people. Birds of a feather...

JT
 

Paul M. Weir

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Simplest solution? Ignore and don't buy!
 

dlazov

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This guy, "Wild Bill" is a con-artist who is all about taking advantage of people. Birds of a feather...
To some extent your correct but Wild Bill has been around doing this type of thing since Squad Leader came out, if you look at his work back in 1982 you'll see a lot of similarities when COB & GH came out by AH, he originated the 'concept' to one degree or another back in 1982 and when ASL came out in 1985 (really it was not until 1986 that both the RB and BV were out together so you could play it and most did not jump right away to ASL, I did because I was sick of the freaking 4 rule books of SL/COI/COD/GI nightmare).

Anyway in the early 90s he switched to PC games and gained a big name on tactical wargames (in particular the Matrix Steel Panthers World at War - I don't like that model, the SP Camo Steel Panthers WW2 is much better...) and only now in the last two years or so has Wild Bill 'got' back into ASL.

I could see his 'argument' that dating back to 1982 he came up with the PTO stuff for SL so he is not plagiarizing ASL, but I can also see that his work is a direct copy so where do you draw the line?
 

King Billy

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Just you wait to see my Malaysia Emergency scenario pack.....

Oh, and the Mau Mau uprising scenario pack.......

Both with counters and hand drawn art work......
 

dlazov

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Well I never said it was good, I am just saying that he has been around a long time doing this, you think this stuff is bad, you should see the stuff from the 80s it was black and white....
 

MrP

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Well I never said it was good, I am just saying that he has been around a long time doing this, you think this stuff is bad, you should see the stuff from the 80s it was black and white....
So he has a long history of producing crap then? :)
 

dlazov

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That is one way of putting it. Should I post an overlay or map?

How about, nevermind...
 

Ray Woloszyn

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Has anyone actually tried playing some of the scenarios? This is a moot point for the person who might actually respond in the affirmative would be thusly crucified on this forum. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see an AAR replete with any noted variantism from ASL.
 

Michael Dorosh

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This guy, "Wild Bill" is a con-artist who is all about taking advantage of people. Birds of a feather...
Wild Bill isn't "conning" anyone. He's putting up articles on ebay and letting people trick themselves into bidding it into the stratosphere. The only people getting punished are impulse shoppers, completionists, and ASL-hoarders. People with no self-control, in other words. I think there are support groups for people like that. Although, there are some who are apparently enjoying their purchases and don't feel punished at all. At least one has posted on this forum.

As for plagiarism, I agree it is a serious matter in the community. Wild Bill hasn't done anything at all like that. Neither have I, for that matter.

Mark expresses a legitimate concern. He wants to drive a legitimate businessman out of business. If anyone is so twisted out of shape over Bill's enterprise that they want to take the job on, well, I've done your thinking for you. I'll look forward to seeing how you make out with your little project. I'm sure you'll all be real proud of yourselves once you've erased his name from the ebay listings. ;) Don't call it Crystal Night though, because that name's been taken.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Has anyone actually tried playing some of the scenarios? This is a moot point for the person who might actually respond in the affirmative would be thusly crucified on this forum. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see an AAR replete with any noted variantism from ASL.
I have a copy of Glory & Grief 2, and to be honest, Ray, the materials are virtually unplayable. If you read Mark's review of the Vietnam stuff, there are major gaps in the "rules" presented. You could work together with an opponent to fudge your way through with house rules, but the whole thing is "variantism" before you even get started. It may be some people's cup of tea, but an AAR probably wouldn't tell anyone anything they didn't know - i.e. it would be a slog just to get to the starting line. And if there are vehicles involved, or ordnance, don't bother, because the TK numbers and vehicle notes for the new goodies were never written, or if so, were never included.

Having said that, if people are playing these scenarios and rules and enjoying them - I say good on them. If there is a difference between slogging through the ASLRB for three hours and looking up unfamiliar rules, and slogging through Glory & Grief for three hours and making up rules as you go along, I'm sure it's a narrow distinction if it's your idea of having fun, either way you're doing it. I hear some people go to movies with girls and stuff, too, the crazy monkeys.
 
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James Taylor

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for plagiarism, I agree it is a serious matter in the community. Wild Bill hasn't done anything at all like that. Neither have I, for that matter.
Yes you did. You took someone else's scenario design and submitted it as your own work to the MwTII contest. That is why you are banned from participating in any more of those contests.

"Wild Bill" is a conning people the same way that we have people selling non-existant houses on eBay. Whatever he has supposedly done in the wargaming community in the past has no meaning. What he is currently doing is using ASL as a way to bilk people out of money by selling crap that has no real game value.

Just because its legal doesn't make it right. Its no suprise that you think he's a "legitmate businessman" or that you'd compare those of us who find his actions unsavory to Hitler's cronies.

"Caveat Emptor" applies to both him and you.

JT
 

Michael Dorosh

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Yes you did. You took someone else's scenario design and submitted it as your own work to the MwTII contest. That is why you are banned from participating in any more of those contests.
That's not what happened - the threads are still there for anyone wanting to read them - and any banning from "future contests" would be up to the people running those contests. *shrug* Get over it already.

"Wild Bill" is a conning people the same way that we have people selling non-existant houses on eBay.
In fact, he's not.

Whatever he has supposedly done in the wargaming community in the past has no meaning.
Not to you, but apparently, those bidding up his items to 300 dollars seem to think something of him. There are a lot of CM players that think highly of his work also. You're simply talking from your own limited frame of reference.

What he is currently doing is using ASL as a way to bilk people out of money by selling crap that has no real game value.
No he's not. If anyone is getting "bilked" it's because they're buying things on impulse. Mark's website is the perfect reference tool. I proved myself that you can write in and ask detailed questions, and get them, to inform yourself before making a purchase. There's no one being "bilked."

Caveat Emptor" applies to both him and you.
That's exactly what I've been saying. There's no reason for any buyer not to be informed.

Has it occurred to anyone that these guys paying 300 dollars are doing it because they want to?

I don't see a whole lot of negative feedback being left.

You guys do know how ebay works, right? If you feel ripped off, you leave negative feedback, and the guy goes out of business. If WBW is such a "rip off artist" why hasn't that happened? I think maybe the answer is obvious.

Not a single negative feedback in the last 12 months.

Not a single neutral feedback either.

So, where are the outraged buyers?

Sorry, not buying the phony claims here. All I'm seeing are a lot of satisfied customers. I'm not saying I understand it. I'm saying stop interfering with someone doing a legitimate business. And maybe mind some of your own while you're at it.

Here is his feedback profile:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=firsttofight&ftab=AllFeedback

100% positive.

GREAT EBAYER
SIMPLE SOLITAIRE for ASL & Squad Leader Wilder spi (#190341247795))

Alway interesting to see the new variants and ideas.
SIMPLE SOLITAIRE for ASL & Squad Leader Wilder spi (#190330496686)

etc.
 
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James Taylor

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That's not what happened - the threads are still there for anyone wanting to read them - and any banning from "future contests" would be up to the people running those contests.
:icon_bs:

That is exactly what happened. Dorosh Being Booted From Monkeys with Typewriters

If you don't believe it try joining the next one.

*shrug* Get over it already.
I'm sure you'd prefer that I STFU and let you continue to spread your disinformation, but that's not going to happen.

"Wild Bill" is a con artist with these ASL offerings... he seems to have conned you as well.

Either that ... or perhaps "Wild Bill" is just a pseudonym for Michael Dorosh.

JT
 

Sparafucil3

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You guys do know how ebay works, right? If you feel ripped off, you leave negative feedback, and the guy goes out of business. If WBW is such a "rip off artist" why hasn't that happened? I think maybe the answer is obvious.
I know how eBay works, but apparently you don't. To leave feedback, you have to first buy something from him. As you astutely point out above, people are spending $300 because they want to and likely generally know what it is they are getting. The reason he has positive rep is because he is a good "retailer", capable of writing accurate product description, conducts safe and sound on-line transactions, and ships promptly. All of those things will get you near %100, if not actually %100. The balance is made up by treating people with respect, resolving their problems when they arise, and generally delivering what you promise. At the end of the day, the reputation is mostly about the sale, and reflects little on the product.

And none of that changes the fact that many in ASL'dom would find his products to be shite. Buy it, or don't buy, that's up to you. But from my optic, I'll take the opinion of an ASL player who has an established reputation in the community to a non-playing ASL poser who himself likes to take others ideas. While I may disagree with the former on a lot of things, he has a credibility the later will never be able to achieve. JMO, YMMV. -- jim
 

Morbii

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Wild Bill isn't "conning" anyone. He's putting up articles on ebay and letting people trick themselves into bidding it into the stratosphere. The only people getting punished are impulse shoppers, completionists, and ASL-hoarders. People with no self-control, in other words. I think there are support groups for people like that. Although, there are some who are apparently enjoying their purchases and don't feel punished at all. At least one has posted on this forum.
I have a copy of Glory & Grief 2, and to be honest, Ray, the materials are virtually unplayable.
So wait... Are you one of the ones with no self control that needs a support group, or are you enjoying your "virtually unplayable" purchase? Are you the "one" that has posted on this forum!?
 
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