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Futbol

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Hi, I would like to see unit designations on counters made in the future. MMP already did so in Festung Budapest and I think it would be cool to represent other Allied/Axis units. I.e. Grossdeutschland , 101st Airborne, British 8th Army etc. Image German 4-3-6 squads with Volkssturm shoulder tabs! Just a thought, but why not, we have NKVD counters in VOTG....just sayin

Especially in any future HASLs where a particular unit fought...
 

ParaMarine

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I don’t want this at all. Just functional things that can represent more with less.
 

FrankH.

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One idea (for this type of visual effect) would be not to take up space on any chits or issue any new sets of chits. Instead there could be a dual purpose set of playing cards. One purpose of of the cards would be as OBA draw piles. At the same time these cards could represent, and visually present, graphically (and perhaps with a summary of the applicable unit type rules, and any HASL SSRs) most of the various unit types that fought in the war. For example, volkssturm... If one side had more than one type that side would present more than one of these cards.

There was an idea, which I thought had died to provide specialized cards for AFV. Maybe there are some who still use them. This would be similar.

Not saying to make ASL partially into a card game (like Up Front), but who knows??? Another set of cards could provide random events, or other unexpected conditions, or provide for each side with some slight change to its OB.

Idea?
 

ParaMarine

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That could work. ‘Card enhanced’ rather than card driven, I think, is the way such a system is described.
 

ParaMarine

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No that would be tarded. Chrome has to be somehow immersive and interesting in a narrative sense, not more breaking down abstract representations of firepower as if they are immutable facts of the physical world.
 

kcole4001

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.....

There was an idea, which I thought had died to provide specialized cards for AFV. Maybe there are some who still use them. This would be similar.

.....
Do you mean the AFV cards that came with Hedgerow Hell?
They were a cool addition so you didn't have a stack of counters on map representing ammo status, malf status, etc.
 

ParaMarine

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That’s less chrome, more accessibility.

Actually not a bad idea and something I would probably find it easy to make. Get all the pertinent chapter notes, have a space for markers (or laminate it and have checkboxes for map pen), and finishing touch: put your favorite art of the vehicle in a tiny photo.
 

Wayne

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The AFV cards published by TAHGC came w/DASL (where, ironically, hex space for vehicle markers is not a problem anyway) and were, I found
a/ kinda annoyingly incomplete as a set, and
b/ kinda impractical to use (JMO)

There were third-party efforts to complete and expand and improve the set of cards. See, e.g., this review of one kinda-attractive formerly commercial offering (selling website now defunct).

...but the defunct selling site is maybe not a problem because it appears these cards are now on BGG and free for the download here.

[Do read the few comments on that download page as one voice cautions there are errors on these free third-party cards. Still, they look kinda attractive.]
 

Hutch

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Another set of cards could provide random events, or other unexpected conditions, or provide for each side with some slight change to its OB.
Idea?
To provide another degree of randomness, when we already have Snipers, HOB, Wind Change, Random OB's, etc?
My thoughts, that would be overkill.
 

kcole4001

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The AFV cards published by TAHGC came w/DASL (where, ironically, hex space for vehicle markers is not a problem anyway) and were, I found kinda annoyingly incomplete as a set, and kinda impractical to use (JMO)
.......
I never bought Hedgerow Hell back in the AH days 'cause no one I knew wanted to play it much.
I did buy a very nice copy a couple of years ago, and part of the reason was to get the rest of the published cards to go with those found in Streets of Fire, which was included when I bought a (at the time) nearly full set of ASL products second hand back in the '90s.

I made sure the table I fabbed up had plenty of room to have charts, etc. on the side along with HASL maps just for that reason.
It wouldn't be difficult to print one's own of the missing vehicles, or at least those you plan to use in the next scenario, especially so with a HASL, since you'll be dealing with a relatively limited selection.
I think I'd laminate them to accommodate using a dry erase marker/pen to add the counter ID letter and anything else rather than more counters, though I do find that having malf & stun type of counters on the map is easier to remember, I prefer the cards for ammo status.

Clearly, I am looking at it from a predominantly Campaign Game focus.
For regular scenario use they're just more stuff to get out and set up then put away again, so agreed they're more a pain than they're worth.
:)
 

von Marwitz

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Hi, I would like to see unit designations on counters made in the future. MMP already did so in Festung Budapest and I think it would be cool to represent other Allied/Axis units. I.e. Grossdeutschland , 101st Airborne, British 8th Army etc. Image German 4-3-6 squads with Volkssturm shoulder tabs! Just a thought, but why not, we have NKVD counters in VOTG....just sayin

Especially in any future HASLs where a particular unit fought...

Honestly, I am from the diametrically opposed camp.

With around 25,000 counters for a 'full kit', I believe ASL is, for one thing, not lacking counters.

The only additional counters I see justified are those of a new type, i.e. counters that have not been reflected in the system before. For example, the Germans did not have a 5-3-7 squad before the "St. Mere Eglise" HASL. A 5-3-7 does have a benefit for depicting some Volksgrenadier-type troops, for example, for which neither 4-3-6s, 4-4-7s nor 5-4-8s were fitting. A similar case can be made for Vehicles / Guns not yet part of the system.

But more the same type of counters that we already have just with a unit emblem on them?

From a business-model standpoint, this might be a fine idea: Minimal design changes to the counters necessary, the products with them will be significally more expensive than if they would not be included. This price has to be paid, though, by the customer.

Where to store a plethora of unit-specific counters? Unless you store them in a bag, this will generate secondary cost and effort and will screw up existing storage sytems.

How many scenarios will use them? Chances are, that they will only be used for the HASL they came with. If at all. I know that would not even punch them if it could at all be avoided.

Think of the chaos of interdependencies to expand on the previous point. To be able to use a particular unit outside the product it came in, this would be looking for actions of that unit like a needle in a haystack. Or see it the other way around: You have an action of the 123rd Generic Division for which unit specific counters would just be perfect. Can you rely on other players happen to own the product the 123rd Generic Division's counters came in? Or those of any number of other specific units?

For these reasons, unit-specific counters do not find my support.
For love of all chrome, IMHO there are other and better methods to make a product shiny.

von Marwitz
 
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FrankH.

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To provide another degree of randomness, when we already have Snipers, HOB, Wind Change, Random OB's, etc?
My thoughts, that would be overkill.
Thinking about this just a bit more. There could be, for example, three separate card decks. One might be interested in none, some, or all of them.

  1. A combo OBA draw piles and graphics/basic rules for specific unit types
  2. A deck for determining conditions around weather, setup, the status of certain terrain (rubble, flame, etc. a scenario start), etc.
  3. A deck for random events during play, though I don't have any ideas how this might work
The first deck probably has a wider interest. The 2nd and 3rd decks are probably more for helping generate DYO scenarios and/or for specific HASL or CG games and/or maybe for solitare play or solitare ASL.

Of course all of them would be optional. Just like people optionally decide not to play a particular scenario due to a lack of interest/time/maps, etc.

By the way the "random" events, or more specifically the ability to react to these events, is what marks to some extent skilled game play, and in any case it provides much of the interest in the game.
 

Houlie

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Hi, I would like to see unit designations on counters made in the future. MMP already did so in Festung Budapest and I think it would be cool to represent other Allied/Axis units. I.e. Grossdeutschland , 101st Airborne, British 8th Army etc. Image German 4-3-6 squads with Volkssturm shoulder tabs! Just a thought, but why not, we have NKVD counters in VOTG....just sayin

Especially in any future HASLs where a particular unit fought...
No interest whatsoever, based on additional cost, storage and most importantly, seeking to live a simpler life. The older I get, the less "stuff' I want to be burdened with.
 

ParaMarine

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A nice shortcut or quick set up for DYOs could actually be done by having a good card format like that. There’re a couple of different ways you can get there from here. You could either separate DYOs by type of battle or basically just have an easy, step by step algorithm. Either one would be good because it’s senseless for anyone to go through the rulebook to do it or to remember it all. It isn’t gameplay that makes sense to have down.
 
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Hi, I would like to see unit designations on counters made in the future. MMP already did so in Festung Budapest and I think it would be cool to represent other Allied/Axis units. I.e. Grossdeutschland , 101st Airborne, British 8th Army etc. Image German 4-3-6 squads with Volkssturm shoulder tabs! Just a thought, but why not, we have NKVD counters in VOTG....just sayin

Especially in any future HASLs where a particular unit fought...
The HASL Operational Veritable has "Red" IDs for the Panzer Lehr units for the CG play; the Pz Lehr units are removed from play at the end of the CG scenario play.
 

Ric of The LBC

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The AFV cards published by TAHGC came w/DASL (where, ironically, hex space for vehicle markers is not a problem anyway) and were, I found
a/ kinda annoyingly incomplete as a set, and
b/ kinda impractical to use (JMO)

There were third-party efforts to complete and expand and improve the set of cards. See, e.g., this review of one kinda-attractive formerly commercial offering (selling website now defunct).

...but the defunct selling site is maybe not a problem because it appears these cards are now on BGG and free for the download here.

[Do read the few comments on that download page as one voice cautions there are errors on these free third-party cards. Still, they look kinda attractive.]
It'd be nice if that dude released the AFV Cards into the wild. Texas ASL Downloads perhaps?
 

Larry

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I am quite certain that I have enough counters to replicate the entire war at this point.
 
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