More character class musings

[Redwolf]

Mostly a continuation of this:
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showpost.php?p=1224951&postcount=26

There is still something I don't get about the character choices.

I have such an easier time with my Hunter. I attack ranged, have the right-skill-at-the-right-time for the bow pretty much down and before the enemies close in they are weakened to the point where I can easily defeat them in close combat.

My Champion (Dwarf), although I think it is reasonably high developed, armed and armored for it's environment, keeps dying and dying. It doesn't have a ranged weapon and even though it has much stronger close-in skills than the hunter it is just by far not enough to make good for the lack of "pre-close" combat damage.

Do I overlook something here?

Do I just suck at close combat?

Maybe the point about the champion will show once I have multiple enemies to deal with?

Is the champion's point more in the area of fellowship questing and is the hunter just much more useful for "lone ranger" type stuff?

All of the above?

 

[Palantir]

Hey,
What level are you & what level +- of yours are doing you in?

While I don't have a Champion I've ran duo with my wife & her Champion for 60 levels and for brief times have ran it myself and have never had a "dying" problem. (so far!)

As much as I hate to admit it there have been a couple of times while she has been "AFK" (Away from Keyboard) that I've had to switch & instead of her champion following me (on "follow") I've had to put my hunter on "following" her champion so I could run her Character, so we could get us thru an area with multiple reacting melee mobs. I could not get thru that "mass" melee battle alone as my Hunter but her Champion could take them on and kill the mobs.

As I mention (someplace) once in melee combat vs. multiple targets the odds are much greater that a Hunter will die long before a Champion will- if at all. Against a single target of appropriate level both should be able to win.

The tactical difference is that a Hunter gets weaker as a battle progresses (losses Focus) while a Champion gets stronger (builds Fervour) and thus can deal with multiple targets easier. Versus multiple mobs a Hunter must plan out his actions to take all of them down while a Champion can pretty much just move in & attack.

Planning is required based on your current skill set to get the best usage out of your building Fevour skills while doing good damage at the same time until you unleash your better skills (much like a Warden has to do in building to his Gambits).

A simple Champ attack, at 10th level can look like this: (F = build Fevour)
{One target} Swift Strike(F) /Wild Attack(F)/Savage Strike/Exchange of Blow<>Brutal Strike.
{Multi} Blade Wall (AoE) /SS/WA/SS/ Blade Storm (AoE)

Practicing always helps.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I didn't fool much with the other classes, but I pretty much liked the Hunter from the get-go also. I tried a champion and really hated not having ranged weapons so abandoned it early on. *shrug* If it feels good, do it.

 

[Palantir]

My new toy is another warden. I think wardens rock after all. Only way to go. What do I care what I said 10 minutes ago?

Thanks RW: this is actually an important point about the LotRO classes, they are not what you think they are just by playing them for a bit in the introduction area. The intro area gives you a feel for how a class will play in general SOLO not how they will operate at higher levels in Fellowships or vs. tougher mobs once they start to get their "killer" skills.

I started out playing a Burglar and took him straight to 43rd level before becoming bored with him. (I know how can you suddenly become bored with a class after 43 levels?) :crosseye: I was coming from "WoW" :nuts: and the "Rogue" idea of what the LotRO Burg would also be- it's not, the Burglar is much much different & versatile.

I then proceeded to play & advance @160 levels worth of "alts" in other classes before returning to my poor old Burglar. I forced myself to play him and by level 48 was thinking, "I have more combat options & variations with him than all my other characters together!"

I can stun mobs from range, sneak up on them, back stab 'em & stun them, steal from them, trip them, trick them... a very option oriented melee class.

The point is that, I was bored at lvl 43 but with a slight advancement and new skills I was wandering into areas completely confident of not only killing anything I ran into (in a myriad of ways :devious but walking away from anything I didn't want to fight and having a blast doing it.
:nofear:

So if a class interests you in the least find a player with a higher level of your class and tag along and watch what they can do, might save you a lot of playing time or convince you to charge ahead full steam.
:broccoli:

 

[Redwolf]

Exactly.

I also made my first sword, and a better one than I could buy or rob anywhere.

These bastards really know how to make you play several of your characters. Since everyone can only have one profession (or vocation? whatever) I have to form them into a production line to build some of the stuff I want.

So you have 7 characters per account or per server? But if you have them on different servers they can't mail stuff to each other, right?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

So you have 7 characters per account or per server? But if you have them on different servers they can't mail stuff to each other, right?

Exactly. Which is why I think the popular servers are so popular...

 

[Redwolf]

Exactly. Which is why I think the popular servers are so popular...

Me thinks that this will sooner or later lead to overload on some servers. A cross-server mail system shouldn't be rocket science.

 

[Palantir]

A cross-server mail system shouldn't be rocket science.

They keep them separate to control server economy prices and limit spam gold-seller transfers.
If you had 1 player per server and you could move your gold around freely it would be a mess of players buying items cheaply on one server & selling them for huge profits on other servers throwing out the "economic" balance of each world-server based on the server population.

Each server is closely monitored by Turbine for it's economic condition with the availability of certain items highly controlled.
Ex. Say Mithril Flakes suddenly start flooding the market and the price drops to 100 Silver each (currently running @1.5 Gold each) which creates a boom in the creation & sales of Top of the Line weapons & armor etc. dropping prices everywhere. Turbine will step in and readjust the "drop rate" on the Flakes for a bit until the price/quantity is what they want- whatever that may be.

They monitor about every aspect of the game on each server:
Which classes are being played the most (and at what level others are being dumped) how each class is being played on EACH server (how they judge that I'm not sure but they do and apparently the classes are NOT played the same on all servers.) Which items are being crafted the most, what resources are being gathered the most. What instances/quests are being skipped or repeated the most and on and on.

 

[Palantir]

Me thinks that this will sooner or later lead to overload on some servers.

They'll just limit or halt who can join what server when. As of now Turbine posts the note on the opening screens "We encourage new players to join "X&Y" servers." I've never seen the Landroval server being encouraged to be joined.

{I posted this on another forum a while back in the summer but fits here so...}
I took another gander at the "One Kinship contest"winners page and thought I'd post the sever-kinship numbers in case anyone besides me was curious. I don't know if these numbers show or mean anything beyond kinships / which had the most new characters/levels. Do they indicate anything to anyone?

To me it just shows which servers they want new players going to.

Server: # of Kinships / # of Kinships with no new characters created during this contest.

Arkenstone: 306 / 73
Brandywine: 625 / 168
Elendilmir: 440 / 115
Firefoot: 367 / 104
Gladden: 283 / 90
Landroval: 505 / 134
Meneldor: 334 / 102
Nimrodel: 270 / 75
Silverlode: 354 / 95
Vilya: 277 / 79
Windfola: 354 / 96


http://www.lotro.com/news/436-one-kinship-to-rule-them-all-winners?start=6

 

[Redwolf]

Methinks I'll want a Burglar after all.

I wanted somebody with a Scholar vocation to make use of random artifacts and what better one to be a scholar than a Lore-master?

This didn't go too well. When other characters found scholarisch stuff it often required that the scholar hauls his ass over there person. So I logged out, changed characters and then send the scholar to that place. But a level 8 lore-master in the midgewater marshes didn't go so well, it got killed all the time.

Sneaking seems the way to go for this play style.

Of course what I should *really* do is put a notebook next to my gaming machine and play with two accounts at the same time. Too bad none of my notebooks have Windoze on them

 

[Palantir]

What happened to the Warden?

Scholar- not thrilled with the craft, it probably has the most limited usage of all craft-creators: basically makes "extra's" in the game & not essentials.

Makes various potions (can buy or get as rewards), make crafting bonus items for other crafts (to make stuff), make Dye's (if you want to change outfit color), make oils for Warden & Hunter (for extra damage).

It's nice to have one (I do) but having a Jeweler, Weapon/Armor-maker is much more rewarding.

 

[Redwolf]

The Warden is still in play, but I am in progress to pick (or build new) a character that I want to bring to very high levels. Since I have somewhat limited play time I can't just bring up everybody and I want a *&(#^*# horse soon.

I might ditch a couple of existing characters and experiment with somebody that just deals out the most damage per hour, so to speak. I would build a line of factory workers around it to keep it supplied with everything that increases vitality, might and damage output.

I already got less thrilled about the Scholar after I posted. It's nice to finally have some use for the scraps of old text and things but most products that the Scholar puts out are kinda useless. For my high-damage character I'd probably side it with a Jeweler to give it some extra might and vitality bling-blings. I want dyes, though.

I need a second account and a second Windoze box...

 

[Palantir]

I want a *&(#^*# horse soon.

That will be quite easy in a month when SoM comes out as they are "handing" Mounts to you when you hit 20th level. (abet slower mounts than you get at 35th level) http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=87974

...that just deals out the most damage per hour, so to speak.

Just for doing damage then that would be a Hunter (Ranged), Champion (Melee) or Rune-Keeper (Tactical-spell casting: if you play it the Offensive & not Healing way)

I would build a line of factory workers around it to keep it supplied with everything that increases vitality, might and damage output.

Problem is you have to level those "factory workers" as well so they can do the required crafting quests, use the better recipes and crafting locations.

However- that's basically what a Kinship's "job" is (besides questing friends).
More or less every player in a Kinship will have a different character crafting class that provides the Kin-members with items, while everyone else sends the crafting resources they find to "that" crafter so he can make the items for everyone.

I have 5 character's that are Supreme Crafter's in their field (just missing the Weapon-smith which I'm working on) besides being supreme in the various "gathering" crafts.) It took a lot of effort to get them "up" to the level & kept in resource items to supply finsihed items to the characters at the level required. Fortunately MD has also been sending level appropriate resources so I can help him too. :thumup:

 

[Redwolf]

That will be quite easy in a month when SoM comes out as they are "handing" Mounts to you when you hit 20th level. (abet slower mounts than you get at 35th level) http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?t=87974

Hah! No way I'm gonna use that. 35 or bust.

Just for doing damage then that would be a Hunter (Ranged), Champion (Melee) or Rune-Keeper (Tactical-spell casting: if you play it the Offensive & not Healing way)

But it's a little more complicated that just Champion or Hunter.

For example, 2H weapons are actually better than dual wielding because many of the melee skills use your main (right-hand) weapon damage as a base. So the whole damage of both hands will be used of you have one 2H weapon, while only the right one is used if you dual wield.

The races also create a strong bias for damage dealing, with Elf and Man far ahead. Dunno about might versus agility, either one might come out stronger.

I'll probably give an Elf champion with 2H weapons a spin for an evening.

Never checked out the Rune-keeper. Hmmmm...

Problem is you have to level those "factory workers" as well so they can do the required crafting quests, use the better recipes and crafting locations.

Sure, but you can cross-help them by your main character sending them the best toys they can currently take, so that they can go into area where experience comes fast (and deadly ).

I'll mount a whiteboard for keeping track of all this tonight...

 

[Palantir]

The races also create a strong bias for damage dealing, with Elf and Man far ahead. Dunno about might versus agility, either one might come out stronger.

That one is easy-
Might is used primarily for Melee damage and % to hit with a melee weapon & crit with one and % to block (I believe) Might also affects overall damage done with any weapon in some fashion under the hood.

Agility is for primarily for Ranged damage, % to hit with a ranged weapon & crit with one, it also greatly affects your % to evade & parry.

Just slot weapons/items with those stats & check the skill (melee/ block/ morale etc)to see the change. Each # = 3 pts in the skill. Ex. Vitality of 7 = a 21 pt increase in Morale. Will of 7 = a 21 pt increase in Power, Agility of 5 = a 15 pt increase in evade.

Watch which bonus items you select to use some are better than others: each pure stat bonus (Vitality/Agility/Fate) affects more than one skill. Agility affects Ranged damage, evade & parry etc, while an item with "Evade +15" only effects the "Evade" skill.
So if you had to choose between an item with Agility +5 or one with Evade +15 the Agility would be the one to pick as it affects several skills besides just evade.

Sure, but you can cross-help them by your main character sending them the best toys they can currently take, so that they can go into area where experience comes fast (and deadly ).

That's how I do it.

 

[Redwolf]

Well, agility also increases critical hit chance for common damage and the base chance of hit (for any attack) is higher.

I still don't think it's obvious that men with improved might can gain more experience per hour than Elves with improved agility.

 

[Palantir]

I still don't think it's obvious that men with improved might can gain more experience per hour than Elves with improved agility.

Only if you're a die-hard number crunching player would that matter.
Heck if you take a extra 10 min Bio break playing a "Man" a guy playing an "Elf" for that extra 10 minutes just out gained you in Exp. :laugh:

When you play for casual fun on & off it has zero effect on anything.

Do not let numbers make your choices it really doesn't matter one bit, play what YOU want to play, who YOU want to play & play how YOU want to play. (of course that could mean you play alone sometimes!)

I have yet to be with ANY group or player who has said, "hey you only did 60 damage per second on that 9th Warg, get it up to 60.5 or you're out of the group."

What I just ran into last-night was this in my group: a guy role-playing a Guardian "macho-dwarf" who just charged yelling into every mob we saw. After triggering every mob on us in the place & dying TWICE the Fellowship leader had a little talk with him. He could either work with the Fellowship or not. He was a nice guy but really that was just bad playing. He decided that he'd be part of the group and the rest of the night went well & was fun. What we did was when the word "go" was said THEN he charged into the target mob, a win-win for everyone.


No one asked anyone what race they were or what X stat was, the main concern was could you play as a team and have fun doing it. When a player started cussing when he died he was called out by the Fellowship leader as well - it was not something he or any of us wanted that equaled fun.

 

[Redwolf]

Yeah, the number crunching is just that, some crunching.

FWIW, the fastest leveling character might still be the warden, simply because they can "open fire" at a distance and start chipping away earlier.

The major reason why I got excited about the Warden was that it has the only ranged weapon that can be used while moving. So you get in two javelins before melee.