Morale cap and modifiers

[Binchois]

So for the record:
What happens To an encircled, Fanatic, Heroic 10-2 Leader?

He gets angry... Hulk! Smash!!

But memo to all: when two rules seem to conflict with one another...my solution is probably the opposite of whatever Perry will conclude.:wtf:

P.S. to Genosse Gelb's question: the answer must be that it remains a 10 (in accordance with Perry). Note that an heroic 10-2 keeps his 10ML anyway as per A15.21.

 

[clubby]

So for the record:
What happens To an encircled, Fanatic, Heroic 10-2 Leader? Is he capped at 9? The wording of A15.2 seems a little weaker than the general ML cap.

15.2 HEROES: A hero is represented by a SMC with a Strength Factor of 1-4-9. If it fails a MC, the hero is considered wounded and the counter flipped to the wounded side where it displays a Strength Factor of 1-3-8 and must undergo a Wound Severity dr (17.11). If a wounded hero fails a MC it is eliminated; a hero never breaks or goes berserk and is not subject to Cowering or enforced Pin results [EXC: Minimum Move (4.134), Wounds (17.2), PF Checks (C13.31), ATMM Checks (C13.7), and Collapsed huts (G5.5)]. A hero's current printed Morale Level is never lowered by any cause, but could be increased to 10 (9 if wounded) by various causes (A.18).

15.21 CREATION: A hero is randomly created from other Personnel types (even if broken) during the course of play by a subsequent Final Heat Of Battle DR ≤ 6. A leader which becomes heroic automatically rallies and retains his leadership modifier and all leader capabilities (as well as any higher morale rating; a 10-2 or 10-3 leader would be considered a 1-4-10 hero...

 

[Genosse Gelb]

OK, it's current printed morale level* is never reduced got that, but additional fanaticism could be lowered then?, Say, a 9-1 leader becomes heroic and fanatic, encircled and wounded, so his printed ml is an 8, which cannot be lowered by any cause, even encirclement. But his fanaticism (9) can be lowered by encirclement (back to 8)? So the order in which things are calculated does count? Or is fanaticism changing the currently printed ML? Heroic counters do, right?

*Wounds for leaders are counters, which count as outside reduction (per glossary, wounds = encirclement = Friendly FFE), not as changing the current printed morale. [?] Heroes have a back-side, and heroic markers too have a backside, changing the current printed morale level.[?]

Wow, it seems to be fractally complicated. Probably I am just dense.

 

[howlingfang]

I'm relatively new to ASL but I do know that most games (especially those with very explicit, tournament type rules) have the game automatically and continuously evaluating game state. To me when the game checks the current morale level for the fanatic, encircled leader it sees those two ML modifiers, applies them and then checks - do they exceed 10? Since they don't all good at 10. No need to think of it as "carrying around a get of encirclement free card". Think of it more as every moment, all the time the game is saying: "is he fanatic?" and it keeps getting the answer "yes".

 

[clubby]

OK, it's current printed morale level* is never reduced got that, but additional fanaticism could be lowered then?, Say, a 9-1 leader becomes heroic and fanatic, encircled and wounded, so his printed ml is an 8, which cannot be lowered by any cause, even encirclement. But his fanaticism (9) can be lowered by encirclement (back to 8)? So the order in which things are calculated does count? Or is fanaticism changing the currently printed ML? Heroic counters do, right?

*Wounds for leaders are counters, which count as outside reduction (per glossary, wounds = encirclement = Friendly FFE), not as changing the current printed morale. [?] Heroes have a back-side, and heroic markers too have a backside, changing the current printed morale level.[?]

Wow, it seems to be fractally complicated. Probably I am just dense.

You're mistaking Hero and Leader. A Hero has a regular and wounded PRINTED MORALE which is never lowered for any cause. A regular, non-Heroic leader is not constrained by that rule.

 

[Genosse Gelb]

Yes, but there are no heroic leader counters, just hero counters to put on top of leaders. Honestly I find the distinction slightly ridiculous, but it is in the rules, so there.

 

[clubby]

The game doesn't have any berserk infantry counters to replace the actual counters, just a berserk counter you put on top the unit, but that doesn't make the rules any harder to follow.