MMP Roundtable Discussion

Hutch

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Advanced Squad Leader
  • Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • Slaughter at Ponyri HASL will go on preorder;
  • Doomed Battalions reprint is on preorder;
  • Polish Eagles module will go on preorder;
  • A Spanish Civil War module will go on preorder;
  • The Burma Action Pack Roads to Rangoon is on preorder;
  • Drop Zone: Chef-du-Pont HASL will go on preorder;
  • Solitaire ASL module reprint will go on preorder.
ASL Starter Kit
  • ASLSK Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • ASLSK magazine will go on preorder.
Periodicals
  • ASL Journal 15 will go on preorder;
  • An ASL Starter Kit magazine will go on preorder.
Not saying much, but as we approach the mid-year mark, only two releases for ASL so far: TotR, WOBP #15
 

Vic Provost

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Advanced Squad Leader
  • Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • Slaughter at Ponyri HASL will go on preorder;
  • Doomed Battalions reprint is on preorder;
  • Polish Eagles module will go on preorder;
  • A Spanish Civil War module will go on preorder;
  • The Burma Action Pack Roads to Rangoon is on preorder;
  • Drop Zone: Chef-du-Pont HASL will go on preorder;
  • Solitaire ASL module reprint will go on preorder.
ASL Starter Kit
  • ASLSK Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • ASLSK magazine will go on preorder.
Periodicals
  • ASL Journal 15 will go on preorder;
  • An ASL Starter Kit magazine will go on preorder.
Not saying much, but as we approach the mid-year mark, only two releases for ASL so far: TotR, WOBP #15
All of it is a bit beyond my budget but glad to have options, I have to see which HASLs I really want at this point.

I agree with others, flooding the market with what looks like 2 years worth of products will see old timers like me pick and choose what they really want to buy and play, as it should be. I would much rather see too many product offerings than very few like in the old days.
 

Ric of The LBC

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Advanced Squad Leader
  • Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • Slaughter at Ponyri HASL will go on preorder;
  • Doomed Battalions reprint is on preorder;
  • Polish Eagles module will go on preorder;
  • A Spanish Civil War module will go on preorder;
  • The Burma Action Pack Roads to Rangoon is on preorder;
  • Drop Zone: Chef-du-Pont HASL will go on preorder;
  • Solitaire ASL module reprint will go on preorder.
ASL Starter Kit
  • ASLSK Marco Polo Bridge HASL will go on preorder;
  • ASLSK magazine will go on preorder.
Periodicals
  • ASL Journal 15 will go on preorder;
  • An ASL Starter Kit magazine will go on preorder.
Not saying much, but as we approach the mid-year mark, only two releases for ASL so far: TotR, WOBP #15
MMP guys are no spring chickens. Maximize the production and buying power now. Is there any succession plan for MMP?
 

pensatl1962

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WTF does Discord have to make everything so damn difficult?

I've lost whatever Discord settings I had and now Discord tells me I have claim my account and when I enter my email of record it tells me that email is in use. WT everloving F?

Whoever architected the Discord User Interface has not been around the block enough times....
My account is similarly f’d up. Never ending loop trying to reestablish it. So I said F it.
 

pensatl1962

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I had sworn off of night until VASL. Now I will only play night on VASL.
Given how much is available to play, really anything with a lot of HIP is VASL only.
We played a TotR scenario recently and my opponent kept forgetting that his unit had a SW, etc
which kind of wrecked the game. His bad, could have been me just as easily as
I guess we are getting too used to the wonderful HIP function on VASL.
And don’t forget: overlays! VASL is far superior in that respect as well. In fact it’s superior in almost all aspects, including counter storage.
 

BattleSchool

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I also foresee an article or two on how to transition from Starter Kit to full (or at least chapters A and B, then A through D) ASL.
Ditch the training wheels. Buy BV3 and the ASLRB. Post in the (ASL) Opponents Wanted section. Play ASL!

All seem like good ways to start "transitioning" to ASL.

Twenty years ago, I could see a possible need for a "pathway" to ASL. The first Starter Kit was pretty basic stuff. The expansion of SK into PTO and HASL, however, leads me to believe that those who really want to "transition" have already done so.

IMO, most of the committed SK crowd will likely remain so. And that's okay. But with limited resources, I think MMP will get more buck for their bang by focussing on what ASL and ASLSK players want, which seems to be their own toys and sandboxes.
 

Actionjick

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Ditch the training wheels. Buy BV3 and the ASLRB. Post in the (ASL) Opponents Wanted section. Play ASL!

All seem like good ways to start "transitioning" to ASL.

Twenty years ago, I could see a possible need for a "pathway" to ASL. The first Starter Kit was pretty basic stuff. The expansion of SK into PTO and HASL, however, leads me to believe that those who really want to "transition" have already done so.

IMO, most of the committed SK crowd will likely remain so. And that's okay. But with limited resources, I think MMP will get more buck for their bang by focussing on what ASL and ASLSK players want, which seems to be their own toys and sandboxes.
There is certainly a market for more ASL. You guys are insatiable!😅
 

wrongway149

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Me and Tom Morin often have playtest sessions where we never open the rulebook but still need the charts from time to time (what is a 3 on the 36 Column? Death! Just how much.) though I know we have played in the past without looking at one chart or another. Been in the damn hobby too long with this game I'd say, too late to turn back now! Roll them bones... 🎲🎲
Bill Hayward and I do the same.
 

TopT

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I am not so sure if a Twilight of the Reich magazine is the best idea. Maybe better just to have it as all or part of a Journal?

I also foresee an article or two on how to transition from Starter Kit to full (or at least chapters A and B, then A through D) ASL.
I agree that there is no need for an additional magazine. Publish that in the Journal.

Once you have played SK, there was already an article publish on how to transition to ASL -"Eight Steps to ASL by Jim Stahler (Available on-line)"
 

Robin Reeve

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Once you have played SK, there was already an article publish on how to transition to ASL -"Eight Steps to ASL by Jim Stahler (Available on-line)"
Wasn't it published years if not decades before the SK existed?
What could be interesting, would be an article taking people who already have at least SK1, and suggest a path of learning additional rules from their level of knowledge.
 

TopT

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Wasn't it published years if not decades before the SK existed?
What could be interesting, would be an article taking people who already have at least SK1, and suggest a path of learning additional rules from their level of knowledge.
Yes, it was published way before SK, but it is still a useful tool to use to transition to full ASL. Just like transitioning from SL to ASL, the basics are the same but there are subtle differences. The same applies to transitioning from SK to ASL.
 

Stewart

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Yes, it was published way before SK, but it is still a useful tool to use to transition to full ASL. Just like transitioning from SL to ASL, the basics are the same but there are subtle differences. The same applies to transitioning from SK to ASL.
20 yrs and no Official Transition....
 

Hutch

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It has been stated that part of the reason of the time period between Journals is due to the lack of material to publish. A separate magazine involving TotR would only further exacerbate this issue.
 

Thunderchief

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No mention of the 4 Bridge Brit Para HASL (3 x old CG = Pegasus, Arnhem, Primosole and one new), but I think we've got enough coming up that it could wait a bit longer....
 

von Marwitz

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It has been stated that part of the reason of the time period between Journals is due to the lack of material to publish. A separate magazine involving TotR would only further exacerbate this issue.
With all the stuff being churned out, I am surprised to hear that a lack of material could be the reason for the long time period between Journals:

Not enough articles? To give just one example Jim Bishop publishes a ton of them on his website, all of them high value. I can't imagine that he would reject to have his material published my MMP - rather the other way round of having it linger before it is done.

Not enought scenarios? Given the volume of publications by TPP, the lack of scenarios designs can't be the reason either. And honestly, once again, I don't think that a scenario designer would be reluctant to have a design or two of his make it into a Journal.

At least for me, stand-alone scenarios and good ASL tactics or good themed ASL articles (Trucks, Night, Mines, Banzai Charge, etc.) always have been at the core of what made the ASL Journals (or Annuals before that) attractive.

Lengthy play-throughs are nowadays much better handled by youtube etc.

But now (finally at long last...) to the reason why I responded to your post:

I have never been a fan of a Journal being overly focussed on a particular Module or HASL. If you happen not to own that HASL or are not interested in a particular theme, then the Journal loses a lot of its appeal to all the people to whom this applies.


I believe the great popularity of the Journals, the Action Packs and the WO Bonus Pack are based on the following factors:
Good, thoroughly playtested stand-alone scenarios without HASL-like (extra) SSR. Good articles on tactics or explaining a particular aspect of ASL in depth. A new geo-board here and there. These products are not in the top tier price range.

And with regard to these factors, the three products are also the only ones published regularly by MMP (the Journals more or less).

Therefore, I advocate for keeping the focus on the cited success factors of those three.

As a consequence, I would rather see a separate "Twilight of the Reich" magazine than this theme stuffed into a Journal.


von Marwitz
 

william.stoppel

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I’d like to see Out of the Attic 3 published with the revised 3W scenarios (2 scenario packs for SL/COI/COD/GI) that Bruce Probst revised and led the playtests on. I remember playtesting some of these at WO probably 7 or 8 years ago. There have to be plenty of other vintage ASL fodder that needs to be included there.
 

kcole4001

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.....

At least for me, stand-alone scenarios and good ASL tactics or good themed ASL articles (Trucks, Night, Mines, Banzai Charge, etc.) always have been at the core of what made the ASL Journals (or Annuals before that) attractive.

Lengthy play-throughs are nowadays much better handled by youtube etc.

But now (finally at long last...) to the reason why I responded to your post:

I have never been a fan of a Journal being overly focussed on a particular Module or HASL. If you happen not to own that HASL or are not interested in a particular theme, then the Journal loses a lot of its appeal to all the people to whom this applies.


I believe the great popularity of the Journals, the Action Packs and the WO Bonus Pack are based on the following factors:
Good, thoroughly playtested stand-alone scenarios without HASL-like (extra) SSR. Good articles on tactics or explaining a particular aspect of ASL in depth. A new geo-board here and there. These products are not in the top tier price range.

.........
As a consequence, I would rather see a separate "Twilight of the Reich" magazine than this theme stuffed into a Journal.


von Marwitz
Excellent points made there.

The General used to suffer (IMO) from having to cover too much territory, IR: many games I didn't own or have interest in, however the occasional play-through included in the mag have actually induced me to buy a game, but that was clearly way before youtube, so that point is well proven I should think.

However, if enough interest merited a serious focus on one HASL in the Journal, perhaps a separate issue would be in order?

Maybe there are too many HASLs (in this context only, of course!) to garner enough interest for a special edition on it's own, and perhaps if the articles were made available it might not be deemed to be cost effective for MMP to publish a special.
I'd be curious to see just what the most popular HASL (by sales) has been to date.
Journals are not expensive and are really very good value for the money, so perhaps people on the fence about purchasing a particular HASL would buy a special issue, especially if there weren't any in depth videos available.

I'm quite sure many of us would buy an issue regardless of ownership of a module, many tactical tips and ideas would be applicable to any similar situation, not just that specific module.
I'm defintely in that camp, sign me up for preorder!

==========================================

Or perhaps this is a prime example of where TPP fill in the gaps.

========================

Which leads me to my next thought:

I certainly don't begrudge MMP their views on TPP, and I understand that they really must hold that view, not only from a business standpoint, but to continue to believe that their job as caretakers of the system is of the utmost importance, and I do believe that to be absolutely true.

However, I've never believed that it's a night/day issue.

TPP do not directly grow ASL, IE: no one begins the journey via TPP product, that is obviously true.
But the fact remains that TPP add value to the system by enabling a wider experience by availability of a greater library of material than MMP can produce.
I do not believe that TPP detract from the hobby, assuming that at least a minimum level of quality is reached, which for the greatest majority is the case.

I might also suggest that TPP do indirectly grow ASL.

For example, perhaps some players have an intense interest in something not available from MMP, but published by a TPP.
These players (or at least one of them) must own at the very least the rulebook in addition to the TPP material (even if only playing on VASL), more likely they'll need to additionally own the MMP module which supplies the system counters and maps.
Still quite likely they'll need a module or two that contain the OOBs required for the subject as well.

The rulebook and the components can only reliably be obtained from MMP.
With their new rules update scheme this will become even more the case.

Also, there have been years where little official product has seen the light of day, before MMP and occasionally during their tenure, TPP were (and still are) an important augmentation to the breadth of subject matter we enjoy today.
So it is perhaps a narrow view to completely ignore the importance and influence TPP provide.
It always bugs me a little to see them being dismissed, they're all players just like the rest of us, only more so since they've put time, effort, and skills to work in improving our hobby.
I think that deserves appreciation and acknowledgement. 👍👍
 
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