MMP Roundtable 7 notes - February 2025

[von Marwitz]

Is there a penalty if you don't use the foxholes specified in your OB?

I seem to recall that you can forfeit parts of your OoB.

But if these may be relevant to the VC, it will be counted against you (I.e. if the VC require the opponent to capture a Pillbox and you forfeit it, it is counted as captured by the opponent). In the same line, I think that you have to announce to your opponent if you forfeit parts of your OoB that are relevant to the VC (I.e. in case of the Pillbox, you would need to announce it as to prevent abuse by triggering a bug hunt for something that is no longer there).

von Marwitz

 

[PresterJohn]

Is there a penalty if you don't use the foxholes specified in your OB?

If there is nothing in the SSR or VCs then you are just wasting safe rout paths.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Is there a penalty if you don't use the foxholes specified in your OB?

50 lashes with a wet noodle.

 

[johnl]

Thanks all for your answers. I can foresee certain situations where your opponent thinks there are foxholes but they don't exist. He might then avoid that area. That is, if you don't have to announce you are not using foxholes that are called out in your OB.

 

[Psycho]

Less filling...

Tastes great!

 

[TopT]

Who is working on the Kharkov HASL?

 

[PresterJohn]

Andy Rogers of Hatten In Flames

 

[PresterJohn]

In that article, I said I would go with a modification of @STAVKA's OBA he uses in his Leaflet House Rules if designing OBA. I stand by that. I think OBA should go away. However, if you are of the camp that OBA should always be a threat in being, I would not go with any card replacement system. I would use something similar to what @Andrew Rogers did in Hatten: a fixed deck that never changes. All cards drawn are replaced back in the deck. This is actually a pretty clever system. The chances of placing an AR and converting to an SR are equal to (the chance of radio contact) times (the chance of drawing a black card). If you want more OBA as a designer, you can change the chance of contact or change the chance of drawing a black. The extra chit draws never get affected. The amount of OBA (on average) is the number of turns times the chance to place an AR.

Of course, the number of missions would be heavily influenced by the OBA player's ability to convert from an SR to an FFE:1. This conversion rate is influence by accuracy (which could be tweaked by the designer) and terrain.

This is a change from what I wrote in that article. There I said I would use a card replacement system if I thought OBA should remain a threat. I now would use the Hatten-style OBA system. -- jim

Have you ever considered or heard of anybody considering an OBA alternative that doesn't use chit-pull and maintains the potential of OBA arrival in the next turn?
I am wondering if there are other ways to maintain the flavour of OBA.

 

[sswann]

Maybe you should ask an artillery officer.

 

[Gordon]

Maybe you should ask an artillery officer.

Just do it in writing, they probably don't hear well anymore.

 

[Gordon]

 

[PresterJohn]

Maybe you should ask an artillery officer.

I don't think artillery officers would have good things to say about the chit pull system.

 

[Old Noob]

Bill Mauldin cartoon:
G.I. on field phone/radio to artillery - "This is Fragrant Flower 3 to Fragrant Flower! What's your goddam number?"

 

[Andrew Rogers]

Have you ever considered or heard of anybody considering an OBA alternative that doesn't use chit-pull and maintains the potential of OBA arrival in the next turn?
I am wondering if there are other ways to maintain the flavour of OBA.

In the Hatten rules, you never completely 'lose' the OBA you paid for and (with near mathematical certainty) will eventually get all of your Black chits out ...

 

[PresterJohn]

In the Hatten rules, you never completely 'lose' the OBA you paid for and (with near mathematical certainty) will eventually get all of your Black chits out ...

Yes I appreciate that, obviously. But now everybody has identical artillery.

 

[Sparafucil3]

In the Hatten rules, you never completely 'lose' the OBA you paid for and (with near mathematical certainty) will eventually get all of your Black chits out ...

FWIW, I think the Hatten OBA is the way to go. Changing the card mix and/or the contact DR, you get a much better control of the fire missions. I know people think about the double-red as the big thing to unbalance a scenario but too much OBA is just as bad, or worse. Well done. -- jim

 

[PresterJohn]

I'm trying to imagine a dice roll system with a D6 and a D10 to use as an optional alternative to chit draw. D10 Target number would start high and decrement each time battery access was granted.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I'm trying to imagine a dice roll system with a D6 and a D10 to use as an optional alternative to chit draw. D10 Target number would start high and decrement each time battery access was granted.

At least as a card draw system, rolling a die with a target would be no different as long as the cards were replace. Cards could probably give more fine-grained control than dice could. A dice roll is always categorical (there is no 3.1 on any die). Cards are more continuous (4/7 == 57.14). I imagine you could use percentile dice to get a close enough approximation if you wanted.

I could see a system implemented with two DR (as in 2d6, one for contact and one for access). You could add contact and draw DRM too if you wanted. Imagine a scenario where every failed contact/draw DR gets a -1 DRM to the next contact/draw DR. You could even do the opposite, add a +1/+2 DRM when the SR gets converted to an FFE:1 to simulate "you've been feed enough for the moment". You could still manage to get another AR in, but it would be tougher to string them back to back. Might make for an interesting test. -- jim

 

[Lorenzoknight]

At least as a card draw system, rolling a die with a target would be no different as long as the cards were replace. Cards could probably give more fine-grained control than dice could. A dice roll is always categorical (there is no 3.1 on any die). Cards are more continuous (4/7 == 57.14). I imagine you could use percentile dice to get a close enough approximation if you wanted.

I could see a system implemented with two DR (as in 2d6, one for contact and one for access). You could add contact and draw DRM too if you wanted. Imagine a scenario where every failed contact/draw DR gets a -1 DRM to the next contact/draw DR. You could even do the opposite, add a +1/+2 DRM when the SR gets converted to an FFE:1 to simulate "you've been feed enough for the moment". You could still manage to get another AR in, but it would be tougher to string them back to back. Might make for an interesting test. -- jim

 

[Lorenzoknight]

What me and my wife do for battery access:
The opposite person is in control of the draw pile.
When you want to draw for battery access the opposite person shuffles the deck spreads the cards then puts them under the table we are playing at then you draw a random card.

Since we started this we've had more success with OBA and it makes it fun.