MMP: going the way of the Dodo?

[Peter Quant]

It's been a long time since MMP last bothered to write up a decent update on the status of its products: almost as long a time as it's been for MMP to last produce a decent product. I've complained to MMP directly a few times over the years, and though I've gotten a friendly and patient reply, MMP never improved it's marketing communications.

The website's last "News" entry dates from 2016. Has really, really nothing happened worth communicating to thousands of customers who've committed to spending hundreds of dollars each on products whose development they are eager to have news of? Really?

The website is clunky, amateurish and disinviting. Browsing through the products page always feels to me like wondering through a cemetery of long-dead friends: out of 20 products on the first Products pages fully 10 cannot actually be bought, being "Currently out of stock!" or "Temporarily out of print!" - the meaning of "Temporarily" in Millersville needing to be understood on the same timescale as "News": geological.

There really can be no excuse for not communicating with one's customers regularly in this business, and in MMP's case in particular: when ASL fans regularly have to go for a year or more between product releases, and indeed have to wait for yearS - plural - for their pre-ordered products to take solid form, the very, very least MMP can do is crank out a nice email every other month or so with the latest on progress: a bit on play-testing, latest guesses on production dates, maybe a few pictures: wouldn't that be nice?

It seems to me the people at MMP have to ask themselves honestly and seriously if they really are doing the ASL hobby a service by being its custodians. I do feel they deliver good products - every now and then. But I also feel that they so lack in marketing sense, and indeed in apparent energy and enthusiasm, that I cannot but believe that others could do better - GMT, for example.

I realise that the present crew at MMP are not going to be able to fix what ails there. I would like to suggest that they consider - haven't they yet? it must have occurred to them? - joining GMT. Let GMT manage the marketing part, so that the crew of MMP can focus such energy as they have on making ASL and OCS and other products.

I post this here because I think the only way MMP can be convinced that their marketing is a crying shame, and that they should consider joining GMT, is if the community of their customers sends them the message that they agree this is a good idea. So: what do you think?

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Between MMP's regular email updates & responsiveness on GS, Consimworld & Facebook .. I think they are doing absolutely fine.

I want my information clean and precise - and I only want/need to be told when something's available.

I think we are in an age of information overflow and I appreciate it when a company respect my time enough to stay clean and to the point in their communications.

So - MMP's good.

 

[clubby]

You want to reassured that something is not available yet? I don't understand the point of your post. If you want a weekly email full of half baked promises and run on sentences, sign up for Critical Hit's mailer. The product is so so, but the communication is plentiful.

 

[Brad M-V]

I feel your pain, but MMP keeps the cost for their games lower then anyone else because they wait until they can P500 their games, quickly. The long waits on the GMT P500 page isn't that impressive either, to be fair. MMP's ASL modules are about $120.00 each still, so considering what you get in that box for the price exceeds other game company cost per units handedly, GMT included. If the price is not kept this low the shipping and duty would be even more outlandish then it is now.

MMP is reprinting Reb Barricades and adding a completely new Red Factories module with it for only $120.00... If they start coping the other gaming companies (like GMT) the prices for this type of product is going to jump twofold.

 

[clubby]

I feel your pain, but MMP keeps the cost for their games lower then anyone else because they wait until they can P500 their games, quickly. The long waits on the GMT P500 page isn't that impressive either, to be fair. MMP's ASL modules are about $120.00 each still, so considering what you get in that box for the price exceeds other game company cost per units handedly, GMT included. If the price is not kept this low the shipping and duty would be even more outlandish then it is now.

MMP is reprinting Reb Barricades and adding a completely new Red Factories module with it for only $120.00... If they start coping the other gaming companies (like GMT) the prices for this type of product is going to jump twofold.

It costs actual money to pay people to send out email updates about absolutely nothing happening at the moment. I agree with your theory on what would happen to the price.

 

[Jazz]

....

I post this here because I think the only way MMP can be convinced that their marketing is a crying shame, and that they should consider joining GMT, is if the community of their customers sends them the message that they agree this is a good idea. So: what do you think?

<shrug> Whatever.....

 

[Brad M-V]

Peter, you're as frustrated as a lot of us wanting more of what MMP produces and it clearly shows, LOL! If you didn't give a sheet, you wouldn't have posted your frustrations... you are not alone in feeling like this. <G> Hang in there, MMP has been ramping up their reprinting efforts lately and it's getting better. ;-)

 

[Robin Reeve]

GMT is far from being satisfying.
I received this Spring a game preordered back in... 2010 !
Seven years - and it was a smallish expansion of a simple game. No heavy design or playtesting involved.

I understand the frustration about MMP having many products OOP - some will certainly not be reprinted, so they could remove them from sight altogether...

But MMP, putting aside that problem, are the best custodians of ASL.
They are very conservative with the game rules, which saved ASL: I cannot imagine the mess that would have generated the management of the ASL heritage by some more "daring" players.

As I learned when I had a burn-out about nine years ago: the only thing that you can change in a difficult situation is yourself.
I found the following motto to be quite useful to me : "Don't expect the world to be covered with carpets: learn to wear slippers."
If we want things to go better, there is only one way: offer help to MMP - by proofreading, playtesting, etc.

 

[Jeffrey D Myers]

I think not. No matter what your opinion is of the flavor of dodo meat, I assure you that MMP's is much less palatable.

For food the seamen hunt the flesh of feathered fowl,
They tap the palms, and round-rumped dodos they destroy,
The parrot's life they spare that he may peep and howl,
And thus his fellows to imprisonment decoy.

Strickland, Hugh Edwin; Melville, A. G. (1848). The Dodo and Its Kindred; or the History, Affinities, and Osteology of the Dodo, Solitaire, and Other Extinct Birds of the Islands Mauritius, Rodriguez, and Bourbon. London: Reeve, Benham and Reeve.

 

[von Marwitz]

Between MMP's regular email updates & responsiveness on GS, Consimworld & Facebook .. I think they are doing absolutely fine.

I want my information clean and precise - and I only want/need to be told when something's available.

I think we are in an age of information overflow and I appreciate it when a company respect my time enough to stay clean and to the point in their communications.

So - MMP's good.

This captures it pretty much.

MMP has published quite a lot of stuff over the last couple of years. Much more compared to earlier times of the times of AH. Looking at their resources at hand, I believe they are doing fine.

In fact, I was somewhat relieved that 2017 so far has not seen so many publications by MMP and TPPs. What's in the pipe and good will be quite expensive taken together, so I found it nice to have it spread out a bit.

The one point where I can understand the pain especially of newer players, i.e. those who have not accumulated all the 'kit' yet, is the difficulty to get hold of counters that are part of publications which are out of print. They need either luck, lots of patience or lots of money. Maps are available as Map Sets or as parts. Getting along without all scenarios is easily possible.

In this regard, MMP could indeed contemplate to sell nationality counter sets. This would even allow many of the grognards to replace some of their old and worn counters, some of which originate from modules in which the conters were unevenly cut, off-color etc. I think even if this might lower the sales for some core modules (if available) somewhat, it might still be a financial success, too. By now, the artwork for many nationalities has been redone, so the effort for many nationality counter sets would likely be overseeable.

von Marwitz

 

[Yuri0352]

But MMP, putting aside that problem, are the best custodians of ASL.
They are very conservative with the game rules, which saved ASL: I cannot imagine the mess that would have generated the management of the ASL heritage by some more "daring" players.
.

Indeed

I shudder to think of the alternatives. I think we have seen plenty of examples posted around here prefaced with "How come...?, Somebody oughtta..., The ******* rules need to be changed because...", or similar.

 

[Philippe D.]

In this regard, MMP could indeed contemplate to sell nationality counter sets. This would even allow many of the grognards to replace some of their old and worn counters, some of which originate from modules in which the conters were unevenly cut, off-color etc. I think even if this might lower the sales for some core modules (if available) somewhat, it might still be a financial success, too. By now, the artwork for many nationalities has been redone, so the effort for many nationality counter sets would likely be overseeable.

von Marwitz

Selling parts is probably more of a logistical nighmare than MMP would like to contemplate (you have to order the print runs, then inventory, then deal with orders which are more complex than "send that many of this box". Plus, for the newer players, the counters alone are not the whole thing - they absolutely need the vehicle/ordnance notes. And when you've got to printing this, you're more than halfway to reissuing the whole core module.

Your solution might be viable (not sure, though), if MMP went digital: distribute PDF (or epub - I've moved to eink reader for most of my reading, and I'd be delighted if I could have my ASL stuff on my Kobo!) files for chapter H and other stuff, so only the physical counter would really have to be reprinted for core modules. But then, I'm not sure this is something they'll be confident with.

 

[Bob Walters]

It's been a long time since MMP last bothered to write up a decent update on the status of its products: almost as long a time as it's been for MMP to last produce a decent product. I've complained to MMP directly a few times over the years, and though I've gotten a friendly and patient reply, MMP never improved it's marketing communications.

The website's last "News" entry dates from 2016. Has really, really nothing happened worth communicating to thousands of customers who've committed to spending hundreds of dollars each on products whose development they are eager to have news of? Really?

The website is clunky, amateurish and disinviting. Browsing through the products page always feels to me like wondering through a cemetery of long-dead friends: out of 20 products on the first Products pages fully 10 cannot actually be bought, being "Currently out of stock!" or "Temporarily out of print!" - the meaning of "Temporarily" in Millersville needing to be understood on the same timescale as "News": geological.

There really can be no excuse for not communicating with one's customers regularly in this business, and in MMP's case in particular: when ASL fans regularly have to go for a year or more between product releases, and indeed have to wait for yearS - plural - for their pre-ordered products to take solid form, the very, very least MMP can do is crank out a nice email every other month or so with the latest on progress: a bit on play-testing, latest guesses on production dates, maybe a few pictures: wouldn't that be nice?

It seems to me the people at MMP have to ask themselves honestly and seriously if they really are doing the ASL hobby a service by being its custodians. I do feel they deliver good products - every now and then. But I also feel that they so lack in marketing sense, and indeed in apparent energy and enthusiasm, that I cannot but believe that others could do better - GMT, for example.

I realise that the present crew at MMP are not going to be able to fix what ails there. I would like to suggest that they consider - haven't they yet? it must have occurred to them? - joining GMT. Let GMT manage the marketing part, so that the crew of MMP can focus such energy as they have on making ASL and OCS and other products.

I post this here because I think the only way MMP can be convinced that their marketing is a crying shame, and that they should consider joining GMT, is if the community of their customers sends them the message that they agree this is a good idea. So: what do you think?

I think it more boils down to MMP not realizing the way they maintain their website it makes them look really bad to a large number of people. I suspect they just do not look at the web the way a lot of us do. Heck I am retired and I still spend most of my day in front of a computer.

 

[Loquitor]

I was out of the game for three years and when I came back I ordered all the ASL stuff I had missed from MMP...about $400.00 of stuff about 1/2 of it on sale. Nothing out of print that came out during that time. There are three preorders...Korea, RF and map kit II...RF is slated for second quarter 2018 and I saw Korea would come out next....Map Kit hasn't hit its number....I am just fine with MMP.......you know what is a bear....putting in the sticky errata from J10, J11 and J12....half way done

 

[dur]

The one point where I can understand the pain especially of newer players, i.e. those who have not accumulated all the 'kit' yet, is the difficulty to get hold of counters that are part of publications which are out of print. They need either luck, lots of patience or lots of money. Maps are available as Map Sets or as parts. Getting along without all scenarios is easily possible.

In this regard, MMP could indeed contemplate to sell nationality counter sets. This would even allow many of the grognards to replace some of their old and worn counters, some of which originate from modules in which the conters were unevenly cut, off-color etc. I think even if this might lower the sales for some core modules (if available) somewhat, it might still be a financial success, too. By now, the artwork for many nationalities has been redone, so the effort for many nationality counter sets would likely be overseeable.

von Marwitz

I agree with you 100% on this subject. As a new player myself (been into full ASL for about a year) I've experienced a few frustrating moments of missing out, the largest of which being Rising Sun going out of print right when I decided to go all in with the hobby. Nationality sets would help this problem out greatly. Additionally, with the advent of the pocket RB, MMP should also think about selling a complete chapter H in a similar format. I understand that this would run into some issues since a few nationalities haven't yet been updated to the 2nd edition formatting (italians and french, maybe?), but with HL and CdG on in horizon I would hope they can push something like this out the door in relatively short order.

It would also be nice if they would consider selling a 2 binder set of the rulebook with all chapters included, but I think that runs into the same problem I addressed above since many of the HASLs are not formatted correctly.

 

[Philippe D.]

I've experienced a few frustrating moments of missing out, the largest of which being Rising Sun going out of print right when I decided to go all in with the hobby.

Have you looked at various places online for a distributor that still had Rising Sun? From your location it might not be interesting, but I just checked and the first European online shop I tried still has it, apparently; other places in the USA or Canada might also have it.

 

[dur]

Have you looked at various places online for a distributor that still had Rising Sun? From your location it might not be interesting, but I just checked and the first European online shop I tried still has it, apparently; other places in the USA or Canada might also have it.

Unfortunately the only retailers in the US that still have copies have jacked the price up to somewhere around $250 or more. At that price I can just wait for Winter Offensive to roll around and hope that MMP has a few copies for sale there (like they did at WBC) or just wait for the reprint.

 

[Kaiax33]

Unfortunately the only retailers in the US that still have copies have jacked the price up to somewhere around $250 or more.

I'm in the same boat. Would love to have access to more ASL gear, but would also like to keep supporting my family and not have to take out a second mortgage.

 

[Carln0130]

Gone the way of the Dodo? I thought I was the only guy who used that expression. I'm checking with my copy write lawyer. ;-) As for the topic itself, MMP is just fine and have in fact communicated several times during the time frame you list. You are likely just not on the right forums/Social Media.

 

[takai]

MMP is publishing quite a few games, not only ASL. For them it's clearly a labor of love, and I can imagine the profit margin to be small. I applaud their effort and continued motivation to publish games, and being an avid ASLer myself, am sincerely grateful. So I believe that the OP is not correct that energy and enthusiasm are missing, quite on the contrary.

However there's certainly also a grain of truth here, and I agree that marketing efforts could be much improved. While most ASLers that are in the hobby for a bit glean their info from well hidden FB comments and the like, so are generally well informed, people new to the hobby must find it very hard to find information about publishing schedules, current projects and so on. And yes, the website adds insult to injury. There's no other reason to have a News section which does not contain news than to make people wonder about the seriousness of your endeavour. It is very obvious that there is no marketing strategy in place, and despite everybody's best effort, the effect is negative. I posted on BGG a couple of days ago about Front Towards Enemy and later deleted that post because it felt too negative. But there's absolutely no information on BGG about this game, so why would people consider pre-ordering it? Isn't it disrespectful towards your designers if as a publisher you not drum up support for their efforts? I believe that an investment into a coherent and up to date marketing strategy would allow MMP to boost their sales significantly. As the OP mentioned, GMT is a good example. They managed to crowd source their marketing, aligning their designers via the Inside GMT blog, and post a monthly newsletter with a lot of info. All this drums up so much support for their games and helps sell them.

One should consider the sorely missing updated rulebook with incorporated errata. Taking an example from the RPG community, Goodman Games republishes their Dungeon Crawl Classic regularly via Kickstarter and rakes in $200k+:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1409961192/dcc-rpg-4th-printing

It contains some corrections and gets a different color and print options, but it's basically the same thing. So people collect them! I'm pretty sure most ASLers would sell their own grandmother to get their hands on a deluxe leather bound rulebook in a large font (with incorporated errata), or would buy a "regular" one every year as long as it contains some updates. So call up that guy that makes great WW2 paintings, align your printing technology, convert the rules to something easily editable and viable for cross-media publishing and off you go. Then maybe you'll also find it in yourself to make a serious effort to update the ill-written rule sections, write some nice introductions for the chapters, explaining how rules are laid out, provide more examples of play and so on.

Consider the eASLRB, which we all use, but hasn't been monetized in about ten years. That's like at least a million bucks missing right there. I've been consulting on various electronic and physical publishing and printing projects for years and offered a hand here for free, but never even got an answer. So I guess it really is a problem of priorities. Again I can see how proper business planning is directly opposed to having fun creating the game. I'm not saying, that this is necessarily bad. It's only bad if you can't make a living of it but have to, and then have to get a second job, which leaves less time for my hobby! And of course it's bad for people who would really like to buy a module, but can't, because it's out of print.

The boardgame industry is booming and there's a lot of change. If you look closely, you'll notice that Publishers have migrated to a very different business model nowadays. Stores and Resellers like games that come in little chunks, like LCGs and CCGs, where they can pack a lot on one shelf, and get customers coming back regularly to get the new pack. ASL is perfectly suited for this. Instead of publishing a Journal with scenarios, put the scenarios only in Action Packs, add a counter sheet and sell a couple of thousand for fifty bucks. Instead of delaying the french module because the HASL is not ready, publish them separately. Retailers will love it, customers will love it, it's a win win. Instead of producing boxes, produce a storage system that you can sell as well, but as a different product. Key terms here are small, ongoing and on a regular basis.

I really feel that ASL is stuck, just look at the scenario cards. Do players really want a letter sized scenario card? We all love the historical background. So why not publish three or four engagements from the same battle, research the background and publish as a booklet, give the players two small cards with their OOBs that they can sleeve? Add a counter sheet. Sell for 50 bucks. Offer a download for $45 with a VASL map. Possibilities are endless, if you're just willing to think a little bit outside the box.

Of course all this requires you to have a well managed supply chain. If you need to print thousands of copies to make it viable, maybe you're not doing it right. Maybe you should fly to China and have some talks with suppliers over there. Maybe you need to buy your own printing press to make it work. I'm sure there's a solution. One solution, a very low hanging fruit, could be to actually make your webshop work so that people like me can place an order. It's broken today, and I have communicated this for years now: no response (you can't order if your shipping and billing addresses are in different countries). The weakest link will determine the strength of your chain. If you can't manage a webshop yourself, rent it. If you can't make pre-ordering work, use Kickstarter. If you can't produce counters, buy CH. Yeah, I said that.

And last but not least, I find it not very smart to have no pre-order in place for all the modules that have gone out of print and could be easily reprinted. It would just be a matter of telling your printer to print, and you would have the money on hand due to people signing up, and you wouldn't need a lot of storage space because you would just send out most of the run, and you wouldn't be under any pressure until the preorder number is reached - so at least from my perspective, it doesn't make sense.

So yes, if you add this up, despite all the great work being done, in my opinion, the Dodo question is not entirely unwarranted. Anyway, just my 2 cents, it's not my company and I actually couldn't care less if it weren't my hobby. I just have a point of view from over here.