MMC and SMC

larrymarak

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Any idea why Avalon Hill (or MMP) departed from John Hill's terminology of squads and leaders and called the MultiMan counters and SingleMan counters?
 

Justiciar

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Not an official answer. Note and rendered without going into the attic to look at SL-GIANV series of RB.
Guess: It created an easier way (condensed and singular/plural) to address these terms...I think the OP would likewise include half squads, which was a later element, thus addressing why MMC and HS had to become divisions which would then parse out SMC as an extension.
All that said...it is an assumption on my part...and there are far* better SL / ASL historians out there than myself....
 

Ganjulama

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Not an official answer. Note and rendered without going into the attic to look at SL-GIANV series of RB.
Guess: It created an easier way (condensed and singular/plural) to address these terms...I think the OP would likewise include half squads, which was a later element, thus addressing why MMC and HS had to become divisions which would then parse out SMC as an extension.
All that said...it is an assumption on my part...and there are far* better SL / ASL historians out there than myself....
You are the Man Andy. Don’t be so modest.
 

Justiciar

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Doug,

That is very kind of you. As befits your person.
But I answered from my gut, I do* believe there are folks on this net who might well have a better bead on this than my GI tract. I wasn't trying to be modest mouse...but rather acknowledge some long in the tooth lions out there on this subject. It should yield some interesting insight, and is a useful post by the OP for the history of the game.
Look forward to seeing you at ASLOK if all goes well.

Andy
 

RandyT0001

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Maybe calling the units squads and leaders fit with the name better. It was called 'Squad Leader' and not 'Single Man Counters and Multiman Counters'. You have to admit that last title is a bit awkward and not really conducive for marketing to wargamers.

I honestly do not think that John Hill foresaw nor designed for the later additions to Squad Leader. I think that was more the creation of AH to supply the demand for armor rules to better depict the variety of AFVs in WW2. Others wanted newer, more realistic rules that expanded the system to include other nationalities. Once the rule set became so conflicted by the time of GI:AoV, the push for a rewrite of the rules (Advanced Squad Leader) led AH to use SMC for leaders and heros and MMC for squads, half-squads and crews (infantry and vehicle) using new counter artword to distinguish a squad (3 upright soldiers) from a half squad (two upright soldiers).

I too am not a historian of SL/ASL but there are others.
 

Vinnie

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I think It is to be a catch all term. MMM includes squads, half squads and crews. The term squad is used on occasion but only covers one of these.
 

Robin Reeve

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I think It is to be a catch all term. MMC includes squads, half squads and crews. The term squad is used on occasion but only covers one of these.
And SMC includes leaders and heroes.
So, squads and leaders still are in the rules.
 

witchbottles

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Technically speaking, in reference to the 1998 Maryland Court ruling, the use of "Squads and Leaders" as a wargame term to define a specific game system by title, is restricted specifically now to products made by Critical Hit, Inc. That ruling has never been overturned or vacated. That does not mean one cannot use those terms to describe various units within a wargame, they just cannot be used to define a wargame by title unless you happen to be Critical Hit.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Any idea why Avalon Hill (or MMP) departed from John Hill's terminology of squads and leaders and called the MultiMan counters and SingleMan counters?
The stated and intended purpose of the ASLRB was to codify everything in the game with very specific language and terminlogy so that it would close loopholes. In the original, "half-squads" weren't part of the original rulebook. They were introduced in COD and the first counters were in GI: Anvil of Victory. So whenever you had a rule in the first rulebook allowing a "squad" to do something, there was a question later on - does that include crews? Does that include half-squads? What if I have 3 scout counters and a sniper? etc. So the term MMC could be used to include everything - squad, half-squad, crew, or equivalent in SMC. Much easier to write the rules that way, fewer special exceptions.
 
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