Missing Counter?

wrongway149

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Some nations have 'static' MG mounts (AA versions) as ordnance counters -- What would a water-cooled M2 .50 cal be? 10-16?

The original photo claimed is was a USMC weapon on Guadalcanal.

16305
 

Michael Dorosh

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Without power traverse (like on the M16 half track) I have to wonder how truly useful this thing was.

Pete, there is film of one of these in operation in the TORA TORA TORA movie, as I believe they have one defending the hangars at Ford Island. You can see one at 0:19 of this clip


but there is better footage of it in the film, a sailor with his shirt hanging off Sgt. Rock style firing at incoming airplanes.
 
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RandyT0001

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Without power traverse (like on the M16 half track) I have to wonder how truly useful this thing was.

Pete, there is film of one of these in operation in the TORA TORA TORA movie, as I believe they have one defending the hangars at Ford Island. You can see one at 0:19 of this clip


but there is better footage of it in the film, a sailor with his shirt hanging off Sgt. Rock style firing at incoming airplanes.
That sailor got a carrier named after him.

 

Michael Dorosh

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That sailor got a carrier named after him.
Yes, but I was thinking of a different sailor. Miller was on a ship (and you're right they show it in the film as well). I was thinking of the famous scene in front of the seaplane hangar.
 

Eagle4ty

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Some nations have 'static' MG mounts (AA versions) as ordnance counters -- What would a water-cooled M2 .50 cal be? 10-16?

The original photo claimed is was a USMC weapon on Guadalcanal.

View attachment 16305
I would certainly rate it as a 16 hex range wpn, 8 FP, but with a repair of possibly 1 (always thought the R# for the .30-cal HMG was a little high as well) because of the complexity of the system. Though perhaps shown here in a free traverse situation the pintel mount could be locked down with a quick release to better engage predetermined tagets and firer supports would afford a more stable firing platform. Coupled with a better (i.e. larger) sight I believe it would allow for good performance vs ground targets even tough quite sure sure its anticipated use was primarily against aircraft. JHMHO as I've never fired one.
 

Chas

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FYI. The standard 50 cal has very easy T&E on the tripod. Can lock into an elevation and go side to side spraying a certain range.
Can lock both to basically hammer a certain point.
 

wrongway149

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FYI. The standard 50 cal has very easy T&E on the tripod. Can lock into an elevation and go side to side spraying a certain range.
Can lock both to basically hammer a certain point.
Probably one reason it is still in service all over. Just don't lose your head space and timing gauge.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Probably one reason it is still in service all over. Just don't lose your head space and timing gauge.
I've done the TOETs for it but never fired it - the infantry here were quite upset about losing theirs, though, as it was quite popular. But that was in a ground role, on a low-slung tripod with a number two guiding the belt, not trying to track a moving aircraft with it with a giant drum magazine attached to one side....
 

Old Noob

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That thing's got to be at least 10 portage points.
 

witchbottles

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Several St.Etienne mle 1915 Water-cooled, fixed mount machine guns were removed by Germany after the Netherlands capitulated. In a fixed mount configuration within their bunkers, their slower rate of fire made them effective.

When removed to be used as ersatz machine guns for later Axis-aligned nationals fighting on the Eastern Front, the St.Etienne's had a poorly constructed, welded tubular frame tripod made for them. It was a fixed tripod but a portable mount. Many of these machine guns then ended up being issued.

When we designed scenarios using these seized and re-purposed MGs, we ultimately came to the decision to represent them in ASL as German 5-12 MMGs, with an SSR that they are 4PP SWs, B11, and cannot be dismantled.

The overall design did not compensate as a high (3) ROF, B12 MG.


There are other examples already in ASL designs, including many of the Maxim-08 concept as a crew-served portable, (relatively speaking) machine gun.
 

witchbottles

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Can always revert to the use of the field expedient of a nickle and a dime; works just as well to set head-space.
Carried in my flight suit for years. highly effective tool for the job. I wonder if John Browning meant for it to be designed thusly.
 

Actionjick

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Carried in my flight suit for years. highly effective tool for the job. I wonder if John Browning meant for it to be designed thusly.
I enjoy it when you guys get into the nitty gritty of these discussions. Can't think of an equivalent in the engine room. 🤔
 

witchbottles

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Doris used a twin water cooled .50 cal.
 
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