Minimum Range for OBA

Blackcloud6

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I'm designing a scenario where the on map howitzers can fire together as an OBA module. I'm using the the US M2A1 Howitzer. Chapter H does not list a minimum range for the gun, but i would think that there is a minimum distance from the guns where they could all be brought together for a an OBA FFE. Any thoughts as to what this should be in number of hexes if at all?
 

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I'm designing a scenario where the on map howitzers can fire together as an OBA module. I'm using the the US M2A1 Howitzer. Chapter H does not list a minimum range for the gun, but i would think that there is a minimum distance from the guns where they could all be brought together for a an OBA FFE. Any thoughts as to what this should be in number of hexes if at all?
The US M101A1 105mm Howitzer had a maximum elevation of +66 degrees. I suppose you could up that with ramps under the wheels but that would probably hinder the performance of the spades and the ability of the gun to stay in battery. After that, indirect fire would boil down to elevation and powder charge. The higher the elevation and the lower the powder charge, the closer the round would land to the gun (that's just my guess, I have no real direct knowledge outside an educated guess). If you can reach out to Jack Daniels, he is an artillery officer and should be able to give you a much better answer. -- jim
 

Robin Reeve

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Is the question about using onboard howitzers to do some indirect, OBA-like fire? An SSR would have to care for all the aspects of that question.
If offboard, the range is not very important: if the historical situation evokes indirect fire missions, make them possible.
If somewhere there is an indication that the proximity of the guns prevented to call down the shelling too close, you can create an SSR limiting the area where the OBA can occur.
 

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The situation is of an infantry company protecting a battery of artillery. There would be no reason that battery could not fire in support of the infantry company protecting them. Right now I have it where the SR or FFE cannot be placed within four hexes of the guns and if its direct/extent of error places within the four hex limit it is removed. I think this is reasonable but am just checking if anyone had any knowledge of a minimum range form the guns for an FFE.
 

Blackcloud6

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The US M101A1 105mm Howitzer had a maximum elevation of +66 degrees. I suppose you could up that with ramps under the wheels but that would probably hinder the performance of the spades and the ability of the gun to stay in battery. After that, indirect fire would boil down to elevation and powder charge. The higher the elevation and the lower the powder charge, the closer the round would land to the gun (that's just my guess, I have no real direct knowledge outside an educated guess). If you can reach out to Jack Daniels, he is an artillery officer and should be able to give you a much better answer. -- jim

Thanks. I haven't had contact with Jack Daniels in awhile. He is FB friends with me, maybe I can try there. I was an 81mm Mortar Platoon leader. We could put rounds almost right in front of us becasue of the high elevation of the tube. I suspect that artillery cannot do that.
 

Robin Reeve

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But OBA (and FFE, etc.) means that Guns are offboard - and their distance is never precised.
Thus my question.
 

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The situation is of an infantry company protecting a battery of artillery. There would be no reason that battery could not fire in support of the infantry company protecting them. Right now I have it where the SR or FFE cannot be placed within four hexes of the guns and if its direct/extent of error places within the four hex limit it is removed. I think this is reasonable but am just checking if anyone had any knowledge of a minimum range form the guns for an FFE.
200 meters seems very close for a howitzer to fire.🤔

How many boards are there?

Couldn't you just use direct fire or does the terrain prevent that? Or do you have a specific reason for wanting indirect fire?
 

Sparafucil3

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Thanks. I haven't had contact with Jack Daniels in awhile. He is FB friends with me, maybe I can try there. I was an 81mm Mortar Platoon leader. We could put rounds almost right in front of us becasue of the high elevation of the tube. I suspect that artillery cannot do that.
I know the mortars can be brought down basically on top of the tube. Big guns could obviously direct fire over open sights but that's the the question you're asking. -- jim
 

Actionjick

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Given enough boards and a long enough game this could be a pretty cool scenario especially if the opposing force can maneuver to directly attack the battery. Nice concept!🤗
 

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The situation is of an infantry company protecting a battery of artillery. There would be no reason that battery could not fire in support of the infantry company protecting them. Right now I have it where the SR or FFE cannot be placed within four hexes of the guns and if its direct/extent of error places within the four hex limit it is removed. I think this is reasonable but am just checking if anyone had any knowledge of a minimum range form the guns for an FFE.
I like the outside the box thinking, but my gut tells me you are overthinking the situation. If the enemy was 200 meters away, why wouldn't the guns be direct firing?
 

Michael Dorosh

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Rule 63 from the original SL is "on board artillery". Mortars minimum range is 10 hexes. Minimum range for howitzers is 20 hexes inclusive of the target hex. M4 and M10 tanks/TDs can fire indirect at minimum range of 25 (they couldn't elevate their guns as much I believe is the rationale).

Not scientific, but perhaps a start for you.
 

Michael Dorosh

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I like the outside the box thinking, but my gut tells me you are overthinking the situation. If the enemy was 200 meters away, why wouldn't the guns be direct firing?
Because they can't shoot through hills, buildings and trees.....
 

Blackcloud6

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The terrain is Korea and the battery is in the valley and the bad guys are coming for them from behind a big hill. The good guys are trying to stop the guys from coming over the hill, the good guys are trying to keep the direct fire fight from the guns.

However, after writing two different SSRs for it, I think there is a simpler way to have the similar effect.

But as stated above, 20 hexes away is probably correct so it wouldn't work in this scenario to allow the guns in the valley to do an indirect fire mission on the map.

Thanks for your help.
 

Actionjick

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Rule 63 from the original SL is "on board artillery". Mortars minimum range is 10 hexes. Minimum range for howitzers is 20 hexes inclusive of the target hex. M4 and M10 tanks/TDs can fire indirect at minimum range of 25 (they couldn't elevate their guns as much I believe is the rationale).

Not scientific, but perhaps a start for you.
Nice! A trip in the Wayback Machine still has value!🤗
 

boylermaker

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Maybe just allow spotters to wander very far from their gun? That would get you what you want, I think.
 

Chris Bryer

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Protecting an 88 or some other HE capable, direct fire unit would be easier from a rules basis.
 

Michael R

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Moving this discussion to the Design sub-forum.
 
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