Minefield Clearance

[Jim Burris]

I have a few minefield questions that came up recently. They relate to clearing mines.

B28.6 CLEARANCE says Infantry may attempt Minefield Clearance as per 24.74.

B24.74 MINEFIELD says Unpinned, Good Order Infantry in a minefield location (but not on top of a Wire counter) which has not fired (or directed fire) during that Player Turn and become TI during its Movement Phase in an attempt to clear mines may clear a lane through a minefield with a successful Clearance DR at the end of its Play Turn’s CC Phase…. If successful, the minefield hex is marked with a TB counter across any two hexsides of the ATTACKER’s choice…. Good Order Infantry may enter a Known minefield hex free of mine filed attack by placing a partial TB, provided they expend their entire MF allotment to do so, become TI, and attempt to clear the minefield at the end of their CC Phase.

Questions:

1) Can a squad ADJACENT to a suspected minefield hex enter the hex using its entire MF allotment, become TI and attempt to clear the minefield and in doing so be free of a potential minefield attack? I don’t think this is allowed because the rules use the words Known minefield hex.

2) If a squad enters a minefield hex during its Movement Phase (the hex has no known mines prior to entry), could he become TI and then make a Clearance DR at the end of the CC Phase to try to clear the mines? This question has potentially two answers, one for AP mines and one for AT mines. If the hex the squad entered has AP mines then they would be attacked and would then be in a Known minefield. Assuming the squad survives the minefield attack unpinned and in Good Order can they become TI and attempt to clear the mines? The answer to this question appears to be yes. In the case of the squad entering a hex containing AT mines (unknown) they would not be attacked. Could the squad become TI and attempt to clear the suspected AP mines? What if AT mines were known, could they move into the hex, become TI and attempt to clear the mines? I believe both are yes. The keys to these answers being yes are 1) the rule does not say the minefield must be known, and 2) this is done during the movement phase.

3) If a squad is allowed to attempt to clear AT mines in an unknown minefield and is successful in its Clearance DR, then does the owner have to reveal whether there are really any mines in the hex? My guess is that he does not have to reveal whether there are mines or not.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[jrv]

1) As you say, no. It's easy enough to bring up another unit to do a search to make the mines known.
2) It looks as though a unit may move before declaring the minefield clearance attempt. The unit can only declare a clearance attempt in a minefield location, not in a potential minefield location. If the minefield player has to announce that it isn't a minefield location without the moving unit doing a search, that gives away free information in a way that sounds like it wasn't intended. I think you have to read it as applying only to known minefields. Certainly worth a Q&A.
3) n/a imho.

JR

 

[clubby]

I think this covers 3:

The presence of a minefield is not revealed until a unit susceptible to that type of attack enters that minefield Location or an MMC discovers it by Searching.

 

[Jim Burris]

Thanks for the answers. The argument to not allowing a unit to move into a minefield and then attempt to clear it is that it must become TI to do so and according to A4.8 TEMPORARILY IMMOBILIZED a TI unit may not move, advance, fire or perform other labor tasks anytime during its Player Turn. It might be logical to say that if a unit has moved, it may not become TI because a TI unit may not move anytime during its Player Turn. If this is the case, you must either start the turn in the minefield hex or use all available movement to move in from an ADJACENT hex in order to be able to attempt to clear the mines.

 

[Mister T]

It might be logical to say that if a unit has moved, it may not become TI because a TI unit may not move anytime during its Player Turn.

But be aware that a unit can spend MF, declare a Search (A12.152) for one extra MF and then become TI. So it is conceptually possible in another situation according to the rules.

 

[jrv]

All of the other clearance rules say the unit may not move before clearance. Minefields do not, which is something I only recently noticed. There are other situations where a unit can move and become TI beyond search. Straying at night to a point where the unit can't enter a hex is another example [E1.53]. Hooking up [C10.11], unhooking [C10.12] and pushing [C10.3] all allow for some movement before becoming TI. The A4.8 statement seems to be not very reliable.

JR

 

[James Taylor]

IMHO, a unit can move prior to declaring the clearance attempt, but it requires that the minefield is known. In order to avoid attack the infantry unit must use all its MF to enter the hex and declare its attempt.

Since AT mines don't attack infantry, a squad could potentially move several hexes to enter a known AT minefield hex and then declare the attempt.

I agree with JR... A4.8 does not seem so reliable...

JT

 

[von Marwitz]

IMHO, a unit can move prior to declaring the clearance attempt, but it requires that the minefield is known. In order to avoid attack the infantry unit must use all its MF to enter the hex and declare its attempt.

Since AT mines don't attack infantry, a squad could potentially move several hexes to enter a known AT minefield hex and then declare the attempt.

Highly interesting!

So far I have always thought it would cost me one turn to enter the (AP-) Minefield (avoiding the attack) and only in the next turn attempt to clear it.

Given the difficulty of clearance and the time necessary I have hardly ever considered it preferring to have a tracked vehicle create a TB through it.

I shall put this in Ye Olde Blacke Booke of von Marwitz' Quillets...

von Marwitz

 

[jrv]

Highly interesting!

So far I have always thought it would cost me one turn to enter the (AP-) Minefield (avoiding the attack) and only in the next turn attempt to clear it.

Given the difficulty of clearance and the time necessary I have hardly ever considered it preferring to have a tracked vehicle create a TB through it.

I shall put this in Ye Olde Blacke Booke of von Marwitz' Quillets...

If you want to avoid the attack of an AP minefield, it is necessary to start adjacent to it and spend all MF to enter. The clearance DR is made that same turn. If you don't mind taking the attack you can enter from not adjacent and make the clearance DR that same turn (assuming the unit survives the attack for entry).

In most cases I think using a fully-tracked AFV is preferable for creating trailbreaks through AP minefields. Minefields are relatively hard to clear by infantry. Clearance may only be done during the friendly player turn, while most clearance may be done in both the friendly and enemy player turns, and in most cases the odds are fairly long for infantry. The vehicle will create a trailbreak nearly automatically.

JR

 

[EagleIV]

3) If a squad is allowed to attempt to clear AT mines in an unknown minefield and is successful in its Clearance DR, then does the owner have to reveal whether there are really any mines in the hex? My guess is that he does not have to reveal whether there are mines or not.

You don't reveal the presence or lack of mines unless a 12 (11 if conscript) is rolled and there are no mines to kill the clearing troops.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

3) If a squad is allowed to attempt to clear AT mines in an unknown minefield and is successful in its Clearance DR, then does the owner have to reveal whether there are really any mines in the hex? My guess is that he does not have to reveal whether there are mines or not.

My guess is that it is not allowed to attempt to clear mines if the mines are not known - I'd drop MMP a Q&A.