MG v AFV

VonHutier

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An MG v an armoured target seems straight forward - obtain a hit on the 'To hit' table, resolve in the usual manner ie. An MG has a 4 to kill ( except. 50cal which is 5 ), minus whatever armour ( 0, 1 etc ) giving a 4 or 3 to kill.
To kill an unarmoured target however you resolve it on the * vehicular column , which seems more difficult ie. A medium MG (4FP) needs a 1or less to kill a similar vehicle...plus there is a variation on the 4 columns of the IIFT.

What am I not getting here ?

TIA
 
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To kill an unarmoured target no need of a TH, go direct to IFT. Your MMG of 4FP will immobilize such vehicle with a DR5 and kill it with less than 5, see IFT *Ve line.
 

VonHutier

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Right, I get it, thank you - I'm not reading down the column, 5 is the actual value...
 

Robin Reeve

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Short range helps : MG TK goes up 2 at 1 hex range, up 1 at 2-6 hexes range.
Quite a threat vs light armoured vehicles (such as hakftracks or early war light tanks such as T-26 or Pz I).
 

VonHutier

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Short range helps : MG TK goes up 2 at 1 hex range, up 1 at 2-6 hexes range.
Quite a threat vs light armoured vehicles (such as hakftracks or early war light tanks such as T-26 or Pz I).
Thanks Robin, didn't find that in the rules anywhere - do you know exactly which part I might find that reference?

I'm soon to play an early war Belgian v German scenario, both sides have poorly armoured AFVs, with a lot of 0 factors and a couple of 1s...MGs will be critical against them I think..
 

Doug Leslie

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Thanks Robin, didn't find that in the rules anywhere - do you know exactly which part I might find that reference?

I'm soon to play an early war Belgian v German scenario, both sides have poorly armoured AFVs, with a lot of 0 factors and a couple of 1s...MGs will be critical against them I think..
Just use the range modifiers under the AP TK table.
 

Philippe D.

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Yes, that's one of the reasons why early war scenarios with armor are so fun, vs the right types of AFV a lowly LMG or ATR becomes a highly mobile threat - moving to the the rear target facing isn't dependant on the AFV anymore.
 

VonHutier

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Yes, that's one of the reasons why early war scenarios with armor are so fun, vs the right types of AFV a lowly LMG or ATR becomes a highly mobile threat - moving to the the rear target facing isn't dependant on the AFV anymore.
I never thought of LMGs - thanks ! Makes my job with Belgians a tad easier...
 

Juan SantaX

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But you cannot use MG´s to Kill AFV´s if those are halved for any reason (you cannot close range in your movement phase and shoot at the rear of a Pz.II in the Adv Fire Phase). Unless it is a MG MA of a vehicle.
 

VonHutier

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But you cannot use MG´s to Kill AFV´s if those are halved for any reason (you cannot close range in your movement phase and shoot at the rear of a Pz.II in the Adv Fire Phase). Unless it is a MG MA of a vehicle.
Yes, get it...no long range fire..which is halved, so, no Bounding fire which is halved...you've gotta shoot at the AFV specifically during PFph or DFPh...
 

Kijug

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Yea, I never liked that 'cause that assumes you know that < 25mm is implying MG (or other items such as ATRs?). I.e., no rule specifically stating MGs are < 25mm, etc. (some of us aren't super smart in military weapons, we just play the game...LOL)

With that, a U.S. 50mm HMG only gets a +1 bonus at close range (per Case D table). Seems strange....
 

Juan SantaX

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Yes, get it...no long range fire..which is halved, so, no Bounding fire which is halved...you've gotta shoot at the AFV specifically during PFph or DFPh...
Yes you can Bounding Fire to Kill an AFV, but it must be a Main Armament MG (A9.61 & D3.53)

You can move an MG armed Half track to the rear of a 1 AF AFV and try a TH/TK as bounding fire.

First TH (it counts as NT, even if its a an AAMG), and then TK, It will be a 4 +2 for distance, -1 DRM for rear to win a 1 AF: with a 6 you stun the AFV, but with a 5 you Kill it. That means that after the shoot, if you missed, you can always get into the enemy hex and "freeze" that AFV (D2.6 & A7.212)
 
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Juan SantaX

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Yea, I never liked that 'cause that assumes you know that < 25mm is implying MG (or other items such as ATRs?). I.e., no rule specifically stating MGs are < 25mm, etc. (some of us aren't super smart in military weapons, we just play the game...LOL)

With that, a U.S. 50mm HMG only gets a +1 bonus at close range (per Case D table). Seems strange....
It is 0.50 inches, that´s 12.54 mm.... :unsure::unsure::unsure:
 

klasmalmstrom

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I.e., no rule specifically stating MGs are < 25mm, etc. (some of us aren't super smart in military weapons, we just play the game...LOL)
C7. 24 Example at least mention it..

EX: A LMG at Level 2 fires at the rear Target Facing of an adjacent PzKpfw IIA, re-sulting in a hull hit. The Base TK # is 4. Case A (+1) and Case D (+2) of the To Kill Modifiers apply, but not Case B, yielding a Modified TK # of 7. The AF of the PzKpfw
IIA’s rear hull armor is 1, yielding a Final TK # of 6.
 

Vinnie

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Early war, the German 251 ht is a decent tank killer. Lots of movement to get behind the targets and only a +2 for the To Hit modifier from case C.
If the target is stopped, you are getting a hit on a 10 if they are normal sized while they will be needing a 9 due to your small size and may well be less than that if they are buttoned up or have to change TCA.
 

Juan SantaX

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Early war, the German 251 ht is a decent tank killer. Lots of movement to get behind the targets and only a +2 for the To Hit modifier from case C.
If the target is stopped, you are getting a hit on a 10 if they are normal sized while they will be needing a 9 due to your small size and may well be less than that if they are buttoned up or have to change TCA.
Yes you are right and I was wrong. I thought that AAMG was NT. Thanks for the lesson !!
 

volgaG68

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But you cannot use MG´s to Kill AFV´s if those are halved for any reason (you cannot close range in your movement phase and shoot at the rear of a Pz.II in the Adv Fire Phase). Unless it is a MG MA of a vehicle.
Well, I learned something new today. I thought you could use an LMG in the AFPh with a TH/TK DR. Sure it is halved fire if used on the IFT, but I didn't think that applied to TH (i.e. you just add the +2 TH modifier to the TH DR). I mean, you can obviously use an ATR in the AFPh for a TH/TK, even though its IFT FP would be halved as well if used as such. I still don't get why an LMG is prohibited from doing so, when an ATR isn't, but I see that Klas and Vinnie have read past the point of your post, and if it was wrong they would have said so. I assumed because it was under the AFV MG rules, D3.53 was only referencing AFV MG. Yes, after the comma it says 'any', but taken in the context of the entire sentence, I assumed it was still referencing AFV MG only.

I can't recall having actually attempted such, but I must have in the past, or your post wouldn't have startled me as it did.
 
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