MG fire vs AFV

gwaedin

Member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
38
Reaction score
2
Location
Busto Arsizio
Country
llItaly
Hi guys,
just noticed a couple of things which are different in SK and ASL. I'd like to have somebody else's feedback on it.

1) in ASL, a MG used on the VTT against an AFV uses red to-hit numbers only if it's captured (see To Hit Table). This exception is not present in the SK3 rules, therefore I would assume that any Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American MG attempting to kill an AFV uses red numbers

2) the AP To Kill Table clearly states that a MG needs to have its full FP in order to attempt a kill. Again, I can't find any trace of this limitation in the SK3 rules, apart from the specific case of a Pinned firer (see To Hit Dice Roll Modifiers table). Therefore, even a MG at half FP can try (e.g using SFF) and there would be no reduced effectiveness on the shot aside from the reduction of the B# by two

Point 2) is more significant as it allows multiple killing attempts by a MG. It seems to me both of these points are due to overlooking by the SK design team, as I can't see any reason for having SK rules differ from full ASL rules in a case in which there would be no additional complication.
 

kempenfelter

Motivational Speaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
725
Reaction score
168
Location
Shanty Bay Road
Country
llCanada
I love this game, there's always more to learn. Until I read gwaedin's post, the rule that captured ordnance uses red to hit numbers hadn't registered. How did I miss that? I guess it didn't come up that often. Maybe Ken Dunn didn't think it mattered that much because most MG To Hit/To Kill attempts are going to take place at a range of 1-6 hexes, where there is no difference between the red and the black VTT To Hit numbers. More disturbing is the second point. I can see where problems could arise because the SK rules do not disallow SFF To Hit/To Kill shots. Again, the frequency of this event is not likely to be great, given the armor factors on the AFVs in Starter Kit. Maybe this will be addressed in the Expansion Pack.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,778
Reaction score
7,202
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
1) in ASL, a MG used on the VTT against an AFV uses red to-hit numbers only if it's captured (see To Hit Table). This exception is not present in the SK3 rules, therefore I would assume that any Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American MG attempting to kill an AFV uses red numbers
How exactly is the rule written in ASLSK?
 

gwaedin

Member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
38
Reaction score
2
Location
Busto Arsizio
Country
llItaly
How exactly is the rule written in ASLSK?
I checked more carefully and perhaps solved the first issue.
Among the tables there is one which reads:
RED TO HIT NUMBERS
- Area Target Type attempts
- pre-1944 American
- Non Qualified/Captured use
- Russian/Italian​

However, that can be considered just a reminder. In paragraph 3.2.4, which explains the To-Hit Procedure, one can read " [...] Fire on the Infantry and Vehicle Target Type uses black TH#s unless firing a Russian, Italian, or pre-1944 American Gun, or if subject to Non-Qualified, Captured, or Inexperienced use". The rules therefore limit use of red TH#s to Guns.

I can't find anything more on the MG SFF To Kill issue.
 

Perry

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
2,762
Location
Baltimore, MD
Country
llUnited States
Hi guys,
just noticed a couple of things which are different in SK and ASL. I'd like to have somebody else's feedback on it.

1) in ASL, a MG used on the VTT against an AFV uses red to-hit numbers only if it's captured (see To Hit Table). This exception is not present in the SK3 rules, therefore I would assume that any Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American MG attempting to kill an AFV uses red numbers

2) the AP To Kill Table clearly states that a MG needs to have its full FP in order to attempt a kill. Again, I can't find any trace of this limitation in the SK3 rules, apart from the specific case of a Pinned firer (see To Hit Dice Roll Modifiers table). Therefore, even a MG at half FP can try (e.g using SFF) and there would be no reduced effectiveness on the shot aside from the reduction of the B# by two

Point 2) is more significant as it allows multiple killing attempts by a MG. It seems to me both of these points are due to overlooking by the SK design team, as I can't see any reason for having SK rules differ from full ASL rules in a case in which there would be no additional complication.
Point 2 gets erraticized in the Expansion Pack rules.

We'll take a look to see if Point 1 warrants action.
 
Reactions: wlk

Perry

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
2,762
Location
Baltimore, MD
Country
llUnited States
Hi guys,
just noticed a couple of things which are different in SK and ASL. I'd like to have somebody else's feedback on it.

1) in ASL, a MG used on the VTT against an AFV uses red to-hit numbers only if it's captured (see To Hit Table). This exception is not present in the SK3 rules, therefore I would assume that any Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American MG attempting to kill an AFV uses red numbers
The SK rule says VTT always uses Black TH#s unless firing "Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American _Gun_....." [emphasis added]

A MG is not a Gun, so it "always" used Black TH#s unless Captured.

We are actually changing "Gun" to "MA/Gun" (ane adding Poles and Slovaks) but same principle applies.
 

Kevin Kenneally

Elder Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
18,066
Reaction score
888
Location
Central Texas USA.
Country
llUnited States
The SK rule says VTT always uses Black TH#s unless firing "Russian, Italian or pre-1944 American _Gun_....." [emphasis added]

A MG is not a Gun, so it "always" used Black TH#s unless Captured.

We are actually changing "Gun" to "MA/Gun" (ane adding Poles and Slovaks) but same principle applies.
Perry,

Thanks for the info.

But I thought "Ken Dunn" was THE ASLSK answer king? Or did you send out the MMP Koala Hit Squad on him?
 

gwaedin

Member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
38
Reaction score
2
Location
Busto Arsizio
Country
llItaly
A MG is not a Gun, so it "always" used Black TH#s unless Captured.
Yes, I noticed that by a more careful reading of the rules and I corrected myself in a previous post that you probably missed... sorry about that, I hope I didn't wasted your precious time on a non-existing issue. Thanks! :)
 
Top