Matrix Says You Can't Sell Your Downloaded Games!

[KG_Norad]

Check out this thread and tell me what you think: http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=727129

So the logical conclusion is you can't trade them either? Also by the sound of it if you do the new owner may not be able to download updates for it if they get their update registration software working the way they want to.

If you ask me this is just plain facist! A few considerations, with direct download games you can't shop around for the best price. You are locked in to buying from the publisher who can charge whatever price they want to (and they do!) Even HPS distributes to other online stores if you want it at a lower price. The advantage you get from buying from HPS direct is they will replace any damaged CD's in the future.

No Demo you may pay 60-80 bucks for a game you hate and then they say don't try to recoup your losses.

This is really effecting my opinion of their operation. I really like UV for example, but these business practices are down right draconian. I realize every one needs to make a buck but come on...

 

[CPangracs]

I agree with your assessment. I walso suggest others who agree let them know by keeping their credit cards to themselves. A vote with your wallet is a vote that counts!!

 

[Redwolf]

Overall, I like the digital download a lot, because it gets rid of the stupid requirement of having the CD in the drive (and the CD copy protection is often the major reason when a software doesn't run in an emulator under a different OS).

They cannot possibly allow selling or trading a digital download game, because for the lack of CD and manual there would be no physical ownership proof.

Unless they got smart and instead of giving nothing pysically had hard to fake stickers with a serial number printed made (like used for MS software holograms or concert tickets), and passing on that sticker would be the proof of ownership. You could send that by mail after the digital download for the purpose of later selling the game, and if a person doesn't want it then no snail mail. Easy.

Overall I think Matrix games is much too inflexible and will go bancrypt very soon unless they make a real move to give people what they want.

 

[KG_Norad]

That is actually a very interesting idea Redwolf. I wouldn't be so hard on them I think if you had the option of purchasing a full retail version through the mail. Even if you had to buy it from Matrix (although I am giving them a lot of lattitude here) but since no hardcopy version is available for games like WITP and Battles for Normandy...the buyer gets screwed in not being able to sell it or trade it if they get bored with it or just don't like it.

I agree with you that there are some things I like about the Digital Download option...but I definitely do not like the above mentioned issue. Lucky for me it is not an issue for me personally.

 

[CPangracs]

There is also a problem I've run into with digital downloads from Fileplanet - once you downloaded, they don't let you download it again! I went through this with Splinter Cell, and I won't do it again from ANY company without distinct improvement to the process.

I prefer having SOMETHING tangible and solid when I buy software! I don't want to HAVE to go and re-download something if I decide to remove something from my HD. I create CD's for every game I own that has all available patches and updates, and I place it with the original game CD.

It's still unfair to allow some people to sell/trade games and others not, simply because of the way a product is delivered. I must say, though, that Matrix will soon price themselves right out of business. They are also beholden to the "Superfluous Box-Art" business model, which has a small manual and a CD in a flimsy sleeve inside a box that most likely costs more than the CD to produce!

I prefer Shrapnel's way of putting the same CD in a sleeve, inside the manual, and shrinkwrapping the manual. Cost effective and light,...and you won't see even one of their games for $60 any time soon!

My opinion on Matrix is that they are greedy and don't do what's best for their product line, and thusly, their developers. Time will tell how effective their business model is.

 

[Prester John]

I'm a fan of the internet download way of doing business because I don't have to shop or haggle for best price. I can do the research for reviews, buy, download and play in an afternoon. Great for impulse buying. I guess this is a result of downloading online demos. If I like them I want to get the full game the same way.

I hadn't really thought of selling my games second hand because I want to keep them all. And bandwidth isn't a problem either. I also do a lot of printing already so a bit more doesn't worry me. These are the reasons I'm not complaining (hadn't even considered it).

I have a feeling that entertainment software is going to end up the same way as music seems to be going. You buy access to a server and download to your music player without ever "owning" the vinyl. You play as much as you want but it's your access to the server with the product on it, ie the distribution, that you need to pay for.

So I can't say that I oppose the shift, I just hope that Matrix choose the correct way to do it because if they get it right they will be ahead of the game when others find they have to shift over to doing it this way.

 

[KG_Norad]

Why Not Transferrable Registration...Like a Car??

If you have a system where you have downloaded games registered by a product identifier and user info and limit it to one user per product code, what the heck is so hard about being able to transfer ownership to another party??

For example I trade or sell my matrix game. I go to Matrix and fill out an online form transferring ownership to...I fill out the name and email address of the buyer...after verifying my authenticity. Their system then sends an email to the buyer with a link to the second half of the form. He fills out his personalized information which replaces mine and locks me out. I no longer have access, and only one user can be registered as the "Owner".

So what am I missing here? Why wouldn't this work to "protect" the game from piracy. It seems like it would protect their product more then most CD games do...

I wouldn't mind something like this. I get my game, and I retain the right to sell or trade it legitimately.

While yes this does not prevent me from keeping a copy, but it would prevent me from receiving updates.

And if they really wanted to protect their product they would develope some simple code that would be listed as a "patch" that could be post regularly, and once installed would prevent players from being able to play older versions of the game in multiplayer...(but this is tipping the scales a bit back towards facism...)

Ok now that I have said this I see the obvious flaw...doh. I still like redwolfs idea though.

 

[Redwolf]

NORAD, the first thing to know is that some software companies try to combat the transferrability of regular software as well.

However, in Western European countries and the U.S. there is no doubt that the law allows you to re-sell software you bought.

And that includes Matrix' digital download games. They cannot prevent you from selling the game. And the new owner is the ligitimate owner and could not be prosecuted for owning a pirated copy (you could if you would continue to use a copy after you sold the license.

However, what they can do is attempt to seperate the software license from a right to updates, so that they prevent the new owner from getting patches. But that would require that they introduce a second part of the product which they probably don't do.

In a word: what they wish and what they are entitled to by law are two different things.

 

[KG_Norad]

Well stated Redwolf, but I understand this. I am just not so sure of the why. Will they loose that much money through trades and second hand sales? Granted they are a small company but from what I have seen before the digital downloads they were one of the more visible wargame sellers with boxes on the shelves at Gamestop and EB Games. Perhaps their games weren't popular enough for retail? Hence the Digital Download? Wargaming as a niche market sucks. We need to educate the masses that there is more to life the Spray and Pray games!

 

[Priest]

AFAIC Matrix cannot ban you from selling a downloaded copy of a game. Once you buy it, it becomes your property and you can do with it what you want.

 

[Prester John]

I think the why is that it will be the way of the future.

 

[Redwolf]

Well stated Redwolf, but I understand this. I am just not so sure of the why. Will they loose that much money through trades and second hand sales? Granted they are a small company but from what I have seen before the digital downloads they were one of the more visible wargame sellers with boxes on the shelves at Gamestop and EB Games. Perhaps their games weren't popular enough for retail? Hence the Digital Download? Wargaming as a niche market sucks. We need to educate the masses that there is more to life the Spray and Pray games!

I don't have a problem with digital download, especialy if it makes more of the money end up directly with the deveopers.

As to why Matrix tries to convince people they can't sell the digital download games, it seems pretty clear to me. Since there is no physical proff some people would start selling the same game multiple times. Now, if Matrix would pick up my idea with the hologram they'd be all set, but I have never seen them doing a common sense thing (sorry, I really like them and some of their games, but common sense in the classic definition is not their core skill).

 

[Wodin]

Three things,

Matrix is losing customers with its download game policy and price.

Aslo Im sure a lot of game developers wouldnt want MAtrix to publish their games. Pricing/no shop shelf and many moans about downloads, I wouldnt want them to be my publisher. Maybe thats why EYSA team moved on to somewhere new.

Finally to restrict you from selling something on is ridiculous. What else cant be traded or sold on? I bought a Squad Battles game second hand, then went on to buy one. If I hadnt bought the first second hand I'd never have bought the full price game. Im also going to buy others in the series.

 

[Patrocles]

yeah, I read this in another forum but thought it might not be true! The nerve of Matrix to try and make gamers keep their game!

Yeah, make sure you tell Matrix that you are keeping your wallet closed because of their download purchase policy. I don't own any Matrix games but I will send them an email telling them I am not satisfied with this policy.

 

[suchey]

It kinda sucks, but I can see their point to some extent. On the other side of the coin, distribution of a game you have via hard copy and one you download isn't much different outside of the capabilities of a CD check on hard copy, so I'm not quite sure exactly what they gain by having a non-transferable policy. Strange to say the least.

 

[Reepicheep]

An interesting thread over at the Matrix Forums. My eye caught on the final post which, for those who didn't pop over to read the thread in full, said...

Interesting question. in fact is the subject studying by my wife. She is a lawer.

there is one major problem with the license. As a customer we never accept the license condition before the payment. So the license have no value. So I'm sorry David Heath but your system allow everybody to do what they want. It's true in Europe as in USA.

 

[Aries]

I am as loyal a fan as the most loyal fan, but lets not mince words here.

If someone says I can't do that which I know I can do, I ignore the person telling me I can't do that which I can do.

And that's the end of it, and no amount of endless rants on an internet forum is going to alter that now is it.

Now here is the crux of the deal.

As mentioned on the indicated thread.

"If you need to download a patch, you will need to insert your username, password and registration number.

If you sell the game, the new owner doesn’t know your username and password, so, even with the registration number, they cannot download the patch."

The glitch is the username and password ain't it.

Ok so that's it in a nutshell eh.

You give the guy your username and password.

Oh but that means you have just given the guy your user name and password. Congratulations einstein, you win a cookie.
It's just a username and password.
Make a new one up anytime you make a purchase.

"Oh but I used my old name, and I don't want to lose my many thousands of posts count if I sign up a new username."

Listen to what you just said.
I have zero sympathy with people in love with their penis envy post count obsessions. And the worst of the lot post innane idiotic microposts often with a single smiley just to inflate their post count total.
Man I was sooooooo glad when Don elected to not let any posts from off topic rants count in post counts hehe
Lots of demotions happened over that.

I have not yet bought any digital downloads yet, but you can rest assured gentlemen, anything I buy becomes mine. And I decide what I do with it. And you can quote your laws till hell freezes over, and I will still do what I want with my property.

 

[chrisvalla]

The business model, while good for Matrix, in a word, sucks for the players. By paying the money for the game (not a subscription service that offers many games and you're just buying 'time' to play them) I 'own' it and can do whatever the hell I damn well please with it (within the law), including resell it in full to another party.

If they continue to use this model, I HOPE their sales fall enough for them to wise up and discontinue using it. Maybe someone else will pick things up when they go under, it's not like all of the the games won't see the light of day (some won't) through someone else who is more player-oriented. There is no excuse for the player who pays their higher-than-normal prices not to have 100% full and complete ownership of the purchased game, anything less is a 'lease', not 'ownership'.

 

[RhondaBrwn]

I Wouldn't Wish for Their Demise

Wow... seems like a lot of antipathy over here against Matrix.

Hey, I'm sure they are trying to stay afloat financially in a hobby that just doesn't have the people to support wargame development profitably. You couple that with the very easy practicality of my selling or sharing my legal copy of WITP (plus patches), for example, and I can see why they are trying to discourage the practice.

From a practical sense, I'm not going to help contribute to the demise of the company by cheating them out of sales. They need every one of them and it benefits all of us to support the industry.

There was a hot thread awhile ago about pirating games that included a debate about copying or sharing "out of print" games that had not been released to the public domain, but were no longer being sold or supported by the original publisher. At that point, I don't care what you do with your copy. If Matrix drops WITP from their catalog and quits selling it, then I figure owners should do with it what they will. If sharing an old game gets new gamer "hooked" on the hobby, then that is definitely a good thing for all of us.

There was a thread at Matrixgames.com where the point was argued about the price of downloadable games. There was some prices concerns mentioned earlier in this thread. Frankly, when you analyze what it costs to produce a significant wargame like War in the Pacific, and the limited number of copies that will be sold, then it's a real miracle that we aren't limited to 12 wargames a year and that they cost $500 each!

So, anyway, I wouldn't be so hostile about Matrix. You're helping to kill the goose...

 

[Reepicheep]

From a practical sense, I'm not going to help contribute to the demise of the company by cheating them out of sales.

Reselling a game that you own can hardly be described as cheating them out of sales... that negative conotation implies that there is something morally wrong with selling something you own to someone else. At least, that's the impression that word gives.