Matrix Games acquires rights to the VASSAL engine!

Dr Zaius

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Okay, this Q&A should help to shed some light on things: http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/articles.php?p=499&page=1&cat=52

Brian Youse said:
Hey, Don,

While you're doing your fact finding can you ask one question for me?

Will someone new to ASL who wants to use VASL have to pay Matrix Games (in any fashion) for VASSAL?

Also, if you don't mind, could you email me (byouse@cablespeed.com) the name and email address of the person you're getting info from?
I know this community reasonably well so I've been working on getting this story correct the first time around. Be advised, there were some things posted in various places around the internet today about this that are NOT correct. The information in my article is straight from David Heath, president of Matrix Games. After talking to him it is clear he has the best interests of the community at heart and is making every attempt not to step on anyone's toes.

I just sent you a PM on this Brian. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
 

crufty

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Can't be that exclusive a deal, VASSAL is open sourced, right? :)

VASSAL has to remain open source--so any changes made to the source code have to be made available to anyone who wants them for free. My guess, as far as licensing modules, that's probably a separate product (read: a server VASSAL references) as far away as possible from open-source type licensing arrangements.

From what I can tell--at the end of the day, Matrix provides a secure environment to sell VASSAL modules, while everything else remains unchanged. Not that it would happen, but if Matrix games were to introduce logic that iced out existing VASSAL games, it would be fairly trivial to get the back-level version of the codebase and fork VASSAL off into a separate project, so it sounds like exisiting module authors have nothing to worry about.

What I don't understand is how they can possibly prevent others from selling VASSAL modules (if they really wanted to, using their own servers). Probably something I'm missing.
 
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Dr Zaius

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crufty said:
What I don't understand is how they can possibly prevent others from selling VASSAL modules. Probably something I'm missing.
I asked the same question. My understanding is that anyone who was selling VASSAL modules prior to today was violating the EULA unless they had a license from Rodney to do so. Rodney has now entered into an agreement which allows Matrix Games to handle this aspect of VASSAL. The main changes are for modules that are for sale (not VASL).

To the best of my knowledge, the only major changes for the free VASSAL modules (including VASL) are:

  • the system will now run on a dedicated Matrix server (their stuff is top notch).
  • Rodney may get some assistance from the Matrix team in implementing new features.
  • modules may get more exposure to a wider audience.
 

crufty

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Don Maddox said:
I asked the same question. My understanding is that anyone who was selling VASSAL modules prior to today was violating the EULA unless they had a license from Rodney to do so.
Hmmm--that's the part I don't get. What's stopping someone from taking the VASSAL source, and rolling their own product--open sourced--with a different EULA? Beyond it being a slimy thing to do...

Agreed that this was a good move by Rodney and Matrix; it takes a little money to make anything really good.
 

Dr Zaius

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crufty said:
Hmmm--that's the part I don't get. What's stopping someone from taking the VASSAL source, and rolling their own product--open sourced--with a different EULA? Beyond it being a slimy thing to do...
I don't have an honest answer for this other than I was told that it couldn't be done. If someone were foolish enough to attempt this I really can't see the wargame community supporting them. It would be best if David Heath or Rodney responded to this question to avoid any misunderstandings.

Agreed that this was a good move by Rodney and Matrix; it takes a little money to make anything really good.
Personally, I don't see a down side to this. The freeware VASSAL material will continue as it always has, but authors of new games will now have a unique resource at their disposal to help make their products a success.
 

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Don Maddox said:
Personally, I don't see a down side to this. The freeware VASSAL material will continue as it always has, but authors of new games will now have a unique resource at their disposal to help make their products a success.
Yes, after the initial shock things seem to have settled down again. Things carry on as usual, albeit on a more reliable server I presume. :thumup:
 

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crufty said:
Hmmm--that's the part I don't get. What's stopping someone from taking the VASSAL source, and rolling their own product--open sourced--with a different EULA? Beyond it being a slimy thing to do...

Agreed that this was a good move by Rodney and Matrix; it takes a little money to make anything really good.
This is where it gets tricky. The freeware VASSAL program is built with a combination of open-source and proprietary software. The open-source part is dedicated to pure game play and the proprietary part is dedicated to the auxiliary stuff: saving games to disk, connecting to the server, validating registration passwords. That stuff pretty much can't be open-source if you're going to prevent cheating and piracy. The EULA prohibits redistribution of the proprietary software for commercial purposes.

Somebody could take the open-source part, write a new implementation of all the auxiliary functionality, and make a competing product. Who knows? It might happen some day, and if it did I wouldn't complain. It would be the ultimate validation of the usefulness of the core engine software.
 

Robin Reeve

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Chas Argent said:
All Chicken Littles please return to your coops now.
I see you really do like chicks! :laugh:
 

AlexG

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da priest said:
VASSAL is NOT ASL.

VASSAL is NOT VASL.
Of course they're not, still without VASSAL VASL is useless. I'm not a copyright expert, but I think that would be an interesting matter :confused:

da priest said:
Matrix does not own/have rights in anything related to ASL/VASL.

They appear to be providing 2 things:

1. Service to help game designers generate modules that can be played with VASSAL(say Lock'n Load wants a VASSAL module).

2. Servers to play the modules on, sorta like a bunch of open gaming tables at your local gamestore, or tables at a 'con that you have to pay a 'con to use.

So far none of the services proposed to be provided are ASL "related" in that none appear to infringe on any copyright owned by Hasborg, that we know of.
Well, it seems I panicked a little :)

I say to my defense that I wrote my message just while the 'clarification' message was post, so I read it after I posted mine.

ciao
Alex
 

Robin Reeve

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AlexG said:
I'm not a copyright expert, but I think that would be an interesting matter.
[...] Well, it seems I panicked a little :)
About the copyright issue, I think that MMP would have moved quite a long time ago.
There were copyright issues with Third Parties that tried to commercialise ASL related products, using original ASL graphics.
VASL is free and doesn't use original ASL graphics.
The fact it is free gives a great number of people the opportunity to meet and play - whilst many of them couldn't FtF due to geographical isolation.
VASL is doing a marvelous job making people enter the hobby.
I have initiated some newbies via VASL, although we live several hundred of miles appart.
I believe the fact that VASL is freeware is a commercial asset for MMP. Trying to restrict its accessibility by making it paying would lead to more financial loss than win...
I don't think a copyright lawsuit will arise, as it will not serve anybody.
But that is just my personal opinion.

A gaming community needs to have some "free" zones (or at least very low cost or "donation dependant" ones), beside the paying acquisition of the basis of the game.
 

da priest

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Chas Argent said:
All Chicken Littles please return to your coops now.
Chuckle..don't blame the Chickens this time.

Original "news":

Matrix Games Acquires VASSAL Engine,

Matrix Games is pleased to announce that it has acquired the rights to the VASSAL Engine from Vassal Engineering
The correct story appears to be:

Matrix paid for a non-exclusive LICENSE for parts of Rodney's baby.

Big difference in reactions, if the original story was about a limited license and not a purchase/acquisition.:smoke:
 
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crufty

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rodneykinney said:
The EULA prohibits redistribution of the proprietary software for commercial purposes.
Ahhhh...the missing piece, and makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification -- and congratulations!

Looking forward to the future.
 

John Bark

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VASSAL and Matrix Games...

I see where Matrix Games has now bought the rights to VASSAL. Does that mean the end of "free" VASL?

What does that mean for our hobby????

:salute: :flag:
 

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VASSAL acquired by Matrix Games

From Gamasutra.com:


July 27, 2005
Matrix Games Acquires Vassal Board-Game Engine


Representatives from historical war game developer Matrix Games have announced that the company has acquired the rights to the PC online board and card game-specific Vassal Engine from Vassal Engineering, with the intention of improving and supporting the technology as a new platform for game publishing.

The Vassal engine enables designers to create individually branded, commercial standalone applications that moderate any turn-based game for human vs. human play. The engine was originally designed to provide a quick and easy way to play board games online against similar players around the world. Most games currently playable via Vassal are based either directly or indirectly on existing table top war or CCG games, with titles currently being played including War of the Ring and HeroQuest, though it seems that the partly open-source engine is currently used for many 'unofficial', unlicensed versions of games.

David Heath, Director of Operations at Matrix Games, said, "We believe Vassal offers a great way to bring board gamers together over the internet, while also offering designers a new avenue to reach the gaming public. In many cases, the investment required to turn each design into a printed and distributed game is beyond the reach of many designers and publishers. Vassal offers a way to reach gamers with new and exciting designs that would not otherwise see print as well as allowing existing board gamers to find a community for their favorite game online."

-David Jenkins
 

Dr Zaius

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I merged them all into one big thread. Better to keep it simple for simple people like me.
 

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Thanks for everyone tracking down the truth behind the Matrix/VASSAL relationship. I have to admit that I was concerned about what it would do to the community that used this tool. I missed the dicussion that was roiling yesterday, so I thought it was breaking news. Obviously it was not. I must say that it sounds like VASSAL is in good hands and I think this is a gaming avenue that will continue to thrive.
 

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MMP has to love VASSAL...I've always wanted to own and play the ASL system but could never find someone to play. No longer a problem...I've been buying product for a couple months now...win win for everyone.
 

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ArmedMedic said:
MMP has to love VASSAL...I've always wanted to own and play the ASL system but could never find someone to play. No longer a problem...I've been buying product for a couple months now...win win for everyone.
I think so as well. I first found VASL a few years ago, but didn't own any ASL stuff (any longer) and then the 1st Starter Kit came out. It was priced reasonabally enough that I figured "what the heck". I was able to digest that and then found that VASL covered the scenarios included in it, so I was in business playing it with others. I then went on an ASL buying spree since I could play the full version via VASL. If it weren't for VASL, I would of stuck to the 1st starter kit I'm sure.

I think as long as MMP perceives that VASL is actually leading to sales, they'll be fine with it. If they start to feel that it is getting abused (severely), then there could be problems in paradise, but I think for now at least, we're all good.
 

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I have serious doubts that VASSAL would ever be abused in any kind of significant fashion--and I think you'll typically find that even in the event that someone abuses the word of the rules and plays a game without owning it, that the spirit of the rules will be preserved by them running out and buying it if they like it.

It may be different amongst a strictly Eurogamer set (or may not), but wargamers are an ODD bunch to say the least! In fact, consider how many times you, and wargamers you know, have purchased a wargame with the very real understanding that you might NEVER get a chance to play it. Because, well, you maaaay get a chance to play it, someday, right? So you better buy it!

And absolutely, if they like a game, and want to play it (virtual or not), they will want to own it! Wargamers want to hold the rulebook (and haul it around to study at any opportunity), not a PDF, they want to hold, and perhaps punch and clip, the die-cut counters, and they want to open and scan the map spread before them on the diningroom table.

--guy
 
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