Maps for walled village/town in Italy?

Alan Hume

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I think I might be on a hiding to nothing here
but are there any boards (or overlays) that represent small 'walled' towns/villages in Italy?

I've an idea for a scenario and I might be lucky enough to be able to set it 'just outside' the village
but, otherwise, the village is 'walled' how best would you guys represent this in the game?
An SSR maybe? Again, what rules are there for breaching walls? Are they in the core rulebook or are they in the Manilla HASL (which I don't have)

Any thoughts welcome

thanks guys
 

Michael R

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The core rules have nothing about breaching walls because they are easily crossed by a lot of units (infantry, tanks). Ortona (not yet released) has a terrain feature called High Stone Walls that are not traversable by any units. Breaching is possible with these. I will look up the details and add them to this thread.
 

Alan Hume

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The core rules have nothing about breaching walls because they are easily crossed by a lot of units (infantry, tanks). Ortona (not yet released) has a terrain feature called High Stone Walls that are not traversable by any units. Breaching is possible with these. I will look up the details and add them to this thread.
Many thanks, much appreciated
 

von Marwitz

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I think I might be on a hiding to nothing here
but are there any boards (or overlays) that represent small 'walled' towns/villages in Italy?

I've an idea for a scenario and I might be lucky enough to be able to set it 'just outside' the village
but, otherwise, the village is 'walled' how best would you guys represent this in the game?
An SSR maybe? Again, what rules are there for breaching walls? Are they in the core rulebook or are they in the Manilla HASL (which I don't have)

Any thoughts welcome

thanks guys
If you are imagining an Italian walled town on a hill, you might SSR that a certain Hill Level crestline is considered to be Cliffs unless a road crosses the hexside. Of course, Breaching such walls would not be an option.

Or you could SSR, that a certain Hill Level crestline is in fact not a higher hill but one level lower. The crestline would indicate the circumfence of the wall. In this case, you would have to make up an SSR on how to breach such a wall. Set DC maybe and Bulldozers. I have my doubts, though, that blowing up a medieval city wall and much less clearing it to become useful (at least for vehicles) would be beyond the scope of a normal scenario.

I seem to recall, that in the Manila HASL, there might be rules for this, because I know for sure that there is a (massive) city wall with few gates portrayed there.

von Marwitz
 

Alan Hume

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If you are imagining an Italian walled town on a hill, you might SSR that a certain Hill Level crestline is considered to be Cliffs unless a road crosses the hexside. Of course, Breaching such walls would not be an option.

Or you could SSR, that a certain Hill Level crestline is in fact not a higher hill but one level lower. The crestline would indicate the circumfence of the wall. In this case, you would have to make up an SSR on how to breach such a wall. Set DC maybe and Bulldozers. I have my doubts, though, that blowing up a medieval city wall and much less clearing it to become useful (at least for vehicles) would be beyond the scope of a normal scenario.

I seem to recall, that in the Manila HASL, there might be rules for this, because I know for sure that there is a (massive) city wall with few gates portrayed there.

von Marwitz
Thanks for this, very helpful
I think it is all going to come down to SSR's to be honest

(though I stayed up til 3am working on the scenario last night I seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall at the moment
so not sure if I can take it any further forward. Possibly, but it seems to be a much bigger affair than I at first thought and I don't really like BIG scenarios. I could have done without staying up til 3am too to be honest, pretty tired today)
 

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I've passed, but not yet visited, Monteriggioni (near Siena) a few times, and it looks like it would make a fun ASL map:
30267

San Gimignano is a larger walled town that I've visited and I can tell you that accessing the town from one of the lower car parks can feel like enough of an assault in itself, without adding fatigue, fear and being shot at to the mix. 😁
 

Alan Hume

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I've passed, but not yet visited, Monteriggioni (near Siena) a few times, and it looks like it would make a fun ASL map:
View attachment 30267

San Gimignano is a larger walled town that I've visited and I can tell you that accessing the town from one of the lower car parks can feel like enough of an assault in itself, without adding fatigue, fear and being shot at to the mix. 😁
Wow, those walls are a lot higher than I expected
That place would make for an excellent ASL map for sure
I wonder why MMP has never made one it sure would allow for a lot more 'historically accurate' Italian scenarios
 

zgrose

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I wonder why MMP has never made one it sure would allow for a lot more 'historically accurate' Italian scenarios
I'd imagine no battle of consequence was fought there, would be the main reason. Maybe at a scale like the game Firepower depicts, it would be a decent scenario?
 

Alan Hume

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I'd imagine no battle of consequence was fought there, would be the main reason. Maybe at a scale like the game Firepower depicts, it would be a decent scenario?
I've read about at least two battles in Italian walled towns
 

DonWPetros

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I think that you bring up a good subject - Italian terrain. It's pretty unique and there are few boards that look 'Italian'.

There would be lots of Orchards, hilly villages, ravines, grain. Would be a good idea for an AP.
 

GeorgeBates

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These walls are only for hiding people, you want to see and shoot the buildings behind them! :D
Maybe it's my inexperience, but my impression was that town walls were generally higher than most of the buildings within...?
 

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LM11 "Medieval Warfare" from HOB's Long March pack has extensive SSR for city walls.

Although the scenario uses DASL boards, the use of a stretch of road to represent a section of city wall is quite innovative.
https://www.aslscenarioarchive.com/scenario.php?id=60563

At its simplest, a city wall in LM11 is a level one Location with a +2 TEM and an inherent stairwell. You could restrict access to a stairwell to one side of the wall and even particular hexes. However, if units did not fire from the walls, there is no need for stairwells and you're primarily dealing with a level one obstacle.

Beyond that, the SSR could easily get away from you. Unless the historical situation cites it, there's no reason, for example, to allow Scaling (B23.424).

Another place to look for ideas might be V7. Gutted Buildings, especially the effects of being roofless (7.2). For instance, one could treat a series of buildings as Gutted to represent a higher or variable-height wall, with only a top level Location reached via quasi inherent stairwell Locations, not unlike the way a Factory Rooftop Access Point (B23.87) works.

Again, no shortage of ideas. Just some work to distill an SSR down to a few lines of text.
 
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