Mandatory Leadership in SK

PaulS

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Can't find anything definitive about mandatory leadership rules in SK rules. ASLRB A10.72 spells it out but SK references have the term "may use" regarding the leadership modifier. Seems like they are saying you can decide for yourself in SK but if you are using a 8+1 Japanese leader in CC you think you would be forced to use the +1 modifier for at least the CC, if not the ambush roll.
Probably just another of the ASL rules not used in SK. I'm OK with that as I think it is a great system: love the scenarios. Just wondering...
Paul S
 

jrv

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Can't find anything definitive about mandatory leadership rules in SK rules. ASLRB A10.72 spells it out but SK references have the term "may use" regarding the leadership modifier. Seems like they are saying you can decide for yourself in SK but if you are using a 8+1 Japanese leader in CC you think you would be forced to use the +1 modifier for at least the CC, if not the ambush roll.
I don't think ASL requires that a leader direct a CC attack even if the leader attacks with another unit. Per A10.72, "a player can always opt to exclude leader direction in any attack it makes," with a short list of EXC, none of which is CC. A11.141 also says a leader "may" direct the CC attack of the units it defends with. I think the two rules sets are consistent here.

Also per A10.72 and ASLSK 3.8 the leadership drm is mandatory in both ASL and ASLSK. The term "mandatory leadership" is not used in ASLSK, but the effects are parceled out among the actual rules by stating that the leadership DRM/drm applies without giving an option to decline it.

JR
 

Vinnie

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The only time you have to use leader direction in CC is whe you create a leader as a result of the roll.

18.12 CCPh:
Anytime a MMC attacking in CC rolls an Original 2 DR, the player makes an immediate dr on the Leader Creation Table. If this results in the creation of a leader, that leader must add his leadership to the Original 2 CC DR that created him (even if the modifier is a +1), and possibly changing its odds due to his one Inherent FP.



The Starter Kit rules do not contain this constraint:

5.3 Field Promotions: Whenever a MMC rolls an original 2 DR as the first self-rally attempt of a RPh or in a CC attack, it may create a leader. The quality of the leader is based on a dr on the Leader Creation table (using the morale level of the unit at the time of the original 2 DR). If more than one type of MMC made the CC attack, use the best one to base the dr on.
 

jrv

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The Starter Kit rules do not contain this constraint:

5.3 Field Promotions: Whenever a MMC rolls an original 2 DR as the first self-rally attempt of a RPh or in a CC attack, it may create a leader. The quality of the leader is based on a dr on the Leader Creation table (using the morale level of the unit at the time of the original 2 DR). If more than one type of MMC made the CC attack, use the best one to base the dr on.
The ASLSK rules don't say you re-figure the attack after creating a leader. That sounds like something was left out, perhaps including mandatory use of the leader's direction.

JR
 

klasmalmstrom

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The ASLSK rules don't say you re-figure the attack after creating a leader....
In the SK4 rules, this was added/changed in the Close Combat Phase Example:

"The Russian makes a dr on the Leader Creation Table with a net 0 drm (+1 drm/Russian, and -1 drm/odds < 1:1). His original dr of 2 creates an 8-0 Russian leader. The CC odds are then recalculated. The German attack remains at 1:1 (5:5) with no effect. The Russian attack changes to 1:1, although the CC DR of 2 kills the 5-4-8 at either 1:2 or 1:1 odds."
 

jrv

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In the SK4 rules, this was added/changed in the Close Combat Phase Example:

"The Russian makes a dr on the Leader Creation Table with a net 0 drm (+1 drm/Russian, and -1 drm/odds < 1:1). His original dr of 2 creates an 8-0 Russian leader. The CC odds are then recalculated. The German attack remains at 1:1 (5:5) with no effect. The Russian attack changes to 1:1, although the CC DR of 2 kills the 5-4-8 at either 1:2 or 1:1 odds."
It's also in EP1, which is where I looked. You know, I hate rules buried in examples.

JR
 

PaulS

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I don't think ASL requires that a leader direct a CC attack even if the leader attacks with another unit. Per A10.72, "a player can always opt to exclude leader direction in any attack it makes," with a short list of EXC, none of which is CC. A11.141 also says a leader "may" direct the CC attack of the units it defends with. I think the two rules sets are consistent here.

Also per A10.72 and ASLSK 3.8 the leadership drm is mandatory in both ASL and ASLSK. The term "mandatory leadership" is not used in ASLSK, but the effects are parceled out among the actual rules by stating that the leadership DRM/drm applies without giving an option to decline it.

JR
Thanks for the replies. Yes, I reread A10.72 soon after I posted and saw the no mandatory leadership for attacks, including CC. Frankly, after looking more closely at SK3.8 it appears that leadership drm is supposed to be used in Ambush. These are the things I can never find readily when playing. I hate bogging down looking for rules clarifications in the heat of battle, particularly in SK. I am all for defaulting back to A10.72 for all the other mandatory leadership actions as I am the Ami in S68 The End of Their Rope and would love the Japanese to use their 8+1 wounded leader's drm for Ambush rolls, as my lads are always CX for Ambush/CC as per SSR.
Paul S.
 

jrv

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These are the things I can never find readily when playing.
There are many, many rules that I find hard to locate. I have taken to adding my own entries in my index and some times in the margin. If I need to know why the elevation of a unit in bypass is the same as the hex elevation, even if the hexside is drawn over lower or higher terrain, it's in B10.1, last sentence, per my index. I used to mark them directly in the rulebook, but now I put them in a page that I print and paste them in using repositionable glue.

JR
 

PaulS

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There are many, many rules that I find hard to locate. I have taken to adding my own entries in my index and some times in the margin. If I need to know why the elevation of a unit in bypass is the same as the hex elevation, even if the hexside is drawn over lower or higher terrain, it's in B10.1, last sentence, per my index. I used to mark them directly in the rulebook, but now I put them in a page that I print and paste them in using repositionable glue.

JR

JR, my Pocket Ed. is smattered with highlights and scribbled notes. Meanwhile the ASLRB 2nd Ed. is pure as the driven snow (barely a greasy thumbprint). Assuming I keep aging, I'll likely one day need it for the larger font.
Paul S.
 

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There are many, many rules that I find hard to locate. I have taken to adding my own entries in my index and some times in the margin. If I need to know why the elevation of a unit in bypass is the same as the hex elevation, even if the hexside is drawn over lower or higher terrain, it's in B10.1, last sentence, per my index. I used to mark them directly in the rulebook, but now I put them in a page that I print and paste them in using repositionable glue.

JR
I write directly in the book now and HIGHLIGHT cuz its indexing is for shit....I dont mind the modifications
 
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