LOS works differently for my opponent

[Bob Davis]

Hi. My opponent and I are new to VASL and have found that LOS is displaying differently for us. We have the same preferences set for LOS, specifically verbose language.

For one of us, if line of sight is obstructed or hindered, then that shows in the LOS check and verbiage. For the other person, it just shows a thread with no change in the color and no verbiage. So we both see the thread but only one of us sees the results of the check.

Here’s where it gets weird. The person who can see the LOS info (more than just the thread) is the person who initiates the game. If I start it and my opponent joins, I can see the info. If he starts the game and I join then only he can see the info.

Is this how it’s supposed to work? If not, any ideas?

 

[zgrose]

Did you map have any terrain SSR applied to it? Currently, when VASL decides to not do the full LOS functionality, it doesn't show a message anywhere except the VASSAL Error Log. I'd bet a dollar that if you look in the VASSAL Error Log (under the Help menu on the VASSAL Module Launcher window, not the VASL Help), you'll see a message about LOS being disabled for some reason on one machine and not the other.

 

[Bob Davis]

The Only terrain SSR was to use PTO terrain.

I’ll have a look at the error log on both machines. There’s probably something there, but I didn’t know where to look.

I don’t understand why the results flip flop based on who starts the game.

 

[zgrose]

I don’t understand why the results flip flop based on who starts the game.

My suspicion is that there is a slightly different code path if you create a game vs load/receive a game. But just a guess at this point, obviously it isn't intended to matter.

 

[Bob Davis]

OK, just connected and LOS isn't working at all this time for either of us. I even loaded a saved game that previously worked for me.

Here's what the error file says. I'm using board 75, cropped, with PTO Light Jungle terrain. It says the board is not supported, but it was last time.

2020-05-15 13:32:17,047 [0-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - Starting
2020-05-15 13:32:17,049 [0-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - OS Windows 10 10.0
2020-05-15 13:32:17,049 [0-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - Java version 1.8.0_251
2020-05-15 13:32:17,049 [0-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - VASSAL version 3.2.17
2020-05-15 13:32:17,097 [0-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.launch.ModuleManager - Manager
2020-05-15 13:32:20,041 [0-SwingWorker-pool-10200059-thread-2] INFO VASSAL.launch.AbstractLaunchAction - Loading module file D:\VASSAL Modules\vasl-6.5.0.vmod
2020-05-15 13:32:20,763 [0-SwingWorker-pool-10200059-thread-2] INFO VASSAL.launch.TilingHandler - No images to tile.
2020-05-15 13:32:20,765 [0-SwingWorker-pool-10200059-thread-2] INFO VASSAL.launch.AbstractLaunchAction - Loading module VASL
2020-05-15 13:32:20,788 [0-SwingWorker-pool-10200059-thread-2] INFO VASSAL.tools.io.ProcessLauncher - launching C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_251\bin\java -Xms256M -Xmx512M -DVASSAL.id=1 -DVASSAL.port=56751 -Duser.home=C:\Users\Bob Davis -Duser.dir=C:\Program Files\VASSAL-3.2.17 -cp lib\Vengine.jar VASSAL.launch.Player --load -- D:\VASSAL Modules\vasl-6.5.0.vmod
2020-05-15 13:32:21,216 [1-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - Starting
2020-05-15 13:32:21,220 [1-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - OS Windows 10 10.0
2020-05-15 13:32:21,220 [1-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - Java version 1.8.0_251
2020-05-15 13:32:21,220 [1-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.StartUp - VASSAL version 3.2.17
2020-05-15 13:32:21,220 [1-main] INFO VASSAL.launch.Launcher - Player
2020-05-15 13:32:22,350 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - VASSAL images folder found at jar:file:/C:/Program%20Files/VASSAL-3.2.17/lib/Vengine.jar!/images/
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family network-server created for network-server.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family go-down created for go-down.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family network-idle created for network-idle.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family VASSAL created for VASSAL.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family calculator created for calculator.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family go-up created for go-up.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family VASSAL-jabber created for VASSAL-jabber.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family jabber created for jabber.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family bug created for bug.png
2020-05-15 13:32:22,353 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family yes created for yes.svg
2020-05-15 13:32:22,354 [1-IconFactory-preload] INFO VASSAL.tools.icon.IconFactory - Icon family no created for no.svg
2020-05-15 13:32:24,067 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] ERROR VASSAL.i18n.BundleHelper - No Translation: Icon when pieces and draggable overlays are showing:
2020-05-15 13:32:24,067 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] ERROR VASSAL.i18n.BundleHelper - No Translation: Icon when only draggable overlays are showing:
2020-05-15 13:32:24,067 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] ERROR VASSAL.i18n.BundleHelper - No Translation: Icon when only map is showing:
2020-05-15 13:32:25,225 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] WARN VASSAL.launch.BasicModule - VASL version 6.5.0
2020-05-15 13:32:25,354 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\BFP_v431.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,419 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension BFP_v431 v4.3.1 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,419 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\chit-generator-2.0.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,423 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension chit-generator-2.0 v2.0 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,423 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\cloaking-display.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,433 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension cloaking-display v0.0 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,433 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\oba-flowchart.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,436 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension oba-flowchart v0.1 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,436 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\onslaught-to-orsha-6.0.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,441 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension onslaught-to-orsha-6.0 v5.4 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,441 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\secret-dr-1.0.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,443 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension secret-dr-1.0 v1.0 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,443 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\terrain-chart-1.2.1.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,445 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension terrain-chart-1.2.1 v1.2.1 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:25,445 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Loading extension D:\VASSAL Modules\extensions\VASLOverlays_v2.0.vmdx
2020-05-15 13:32:25,501 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASSAL.build.module.ExtensionsLoader - Extension VASLOverlays_v2.0 v2.0 loaded
2020-05-15 13:32:34,340 [1-Thread-5] INFO VASSAL.launch.TilingHandler - No images to tile.
2020-05-15 13:32:34,361 [1-Thread-5] INFO VASSAL.launch.TilingHandler - No images to tile.
2020-05-15 13:32:34,378 [1-Thread-5] INFO VASSAL.launch.TilingHandler - No images to tile.
2020-05-15 13:32:36,827 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASL.build.module.ASLMap - VASL.build.module.map.boardPicker.BoardException: Unsupported scenario-specific rule: FH. LOS disabled

 

[Bob Davis]

I just checked my opponents error log and his last few lines are the same as mine:

2020-05-15 13:32:36,827 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASL.build.module.ASLMap - VASL.build.module.map.boardPicker.BoardException: Unsupported scenario-specific rule: FH. LOS disabled

 

[zgrose]

OK, just connected and LOS isn't working at all this time for either of us. I even loaded a saved game that previously worked for me.
Here's what the error file says. I'm using board 75, cropped, with PTO Light Jungle terrain. It says the board is not supported, but it was last time.
2020-05-15 13:32:36,827 [1-AWT-EventQueue-0] INFO VASL.build.module.ASLMap - VASL.build.module.map.boardPicker.BoardException: Unsupported scenario-specific rule: FH. LOS disabled

Yup, this is what I suspected. Tagging @DougRim so he has another test case to work with.

 

[Bob Davis]

Is this a known issue?

 

[zgrose]

Newly known. Extension/variation of http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/los-thread-problem.157614/post-2018987

 

[Bob Davis]

I’d be happy to get online with @DougRim if needed.

 

[zgrose]

I think your log message is enough, but I’ll leave that to him to decide.

 

[DougRim]

Hi

I am playing in a vasl tournament this weekend so totally unavailable to delve into this right now. I can pick it up next week.

So, as Zoltan said, the error message suggests some kind of Terrain SSR transformation that should have worked but didn't. If you could email me a copy of your .vsav file that would save me some time. dougrimmer@rogers.com.

 

[von Marwitz]

I am playing in a vasl tournament this weekend so totally unavailable to delve into this right now. I can pick it up next week.

I am glad with all the time you put into VASL programming that you don't forget to play the game.

Have fun!

Cheers,
von Marwitz

 

[dlazov]

I get this error all the time on Mac and Windows. It’s caused by Terrain SSR. Easy way to recreate is set the wall/hedge SSR. It will disable LOS every time. It should not do this.

The workaround is to pull all the boards again and NOT do ANY Terrain SSR.

Then the LOS tool will work correctly again.

 

[DougRim]

I get this error all the time on Mac and Windows. It’s caused by Terrain SSR. Easy way to recreate is set the wall/hedge SSR. It will disable LOS every time. It should not do this.

The workaround is to pull all the boards again and NOT do ANY Terrain SSR.

Then the LOS tool will work correctly again.

This is good to know as it is a very fixable bug. We know what causes it and how to fix it. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is a PITA to fix and involves almost a board-by-board effort. Still, gotta be done as it is happening quite frequently. God damn the Terrain SSR man!

 

[DougRim]

OK, I have sussed this one out, at least in part. It was being triggered by the TerrainSSR process that Zoltan and I have seen before. But what was actually causing the problem was cropping row R to full-hex rather than half-hex. This used to shutoff the los engine. I fixed that a version or two ago. I suspect that this game file was originally created before the fix, perhaps it was a VASL setup file?

In any event, when I recreate the map in vasl-6.5.0 by cropping the board and then changing terrain to PTO, the los engine still works.

However, as to why you and your opponent were getting different results, I cannot explain that yet. I have been able to recreate the problem: for the person who creates the game, the los engine works but for the person who joins the game, it does not. More exploration needed here.

 

[Bob Davis]

I think I created the original file in the previous version of VASL, but it might have been a couple of versions back.

Thanks for checking this out.

 

[von Marwitz]

OK, I have sussed this one out, at least in part. It was being triggered by the TerrainSSR process that Zoltan and I have seen before. But what was actually causing the problem was cropping row R to full-hex rather than half-hex. This used to shutoff the los engine. I fixed that a version or two ago. I suspect that this game file was originally created before the fix, perhaps it was a VASL setup file?

In any event, when I recreate the map in vasl-6.5.0 by cropping the board and then changing terrain to PTO, the los engine still works.

Hm, interesting...

So far when updating VASL setups to a current version, I have repulled the counters (and relabelled them if necessary) but I have not set up the boards, draggable overlays etc. anew figuring that the most recent boards will be pulled automatically anyway.

Is it necessary to redo the whole board setup besides the counters, too, if updating an existing VASL setup?

von Marwitz

 

[DougRim]

Is it necessary to redo the whole board setup besides the counters, too, if updating an existing VASL setup?

von Marwitz

In ASL parlance, no it is not necessary to redo the whole board setup [EXC: when one or more boards have been cropped/flipped].

We have also found several instances where TerrainSSRs are bouncing the los engine. This is going to happen regardless of versions. The use of a TerrainSSR is not a reason to redo the boards in setup file. If there is a problem due to an SSR it usually requires a board fix.

 

[von Marwitz]

In ASL parlance, no it is not necessary to redo the whole board setup [EXC: when one or more boards have been cropped/flipped].

Hm, but I'd say the majority of scenarios use flipped boards or half-boards (i.e. cropped boards) of some sort.

What are the consequences of not redoing the whole board setup in such cases?

von Marwitz