LOS tool and its meaning

[WMurray]

I think I'm getting confused on the line-of-sight tool and what it means in AATF. I think it means the following:

--If you place a T-80 at the point of the LOS tool the yellow lines indicate how far away that T-80 would be visible, in the daylight and perfect weather

At least that is what I thought it meant in ATF. If I have that right then that means:

1. The LOS tool does not account for weather, like limited visibility due to snow flurries in the Anaconda scenarios.

2. The LOS tool does not account for nighttime. That is, the yellow lines are not shorter in nighttime scenarios than daytime.

3. The LOS tool does not account for units of smaller size. So for a dismounted unit I should assume it is both (a) less visible and has (b) less spotting capability than the yellow lines show since it is less high up than a T-80.

4. The LOS tool does not account for altitude. It assumes one is at ground level. So a helicopter or plane would see more, and a helicopter flying nap-of-the-earth, e.g., down a road, would see less then if it were flying over the trees.

I think another source of my confusion is whether the LOS tool shows unit visibility or unit spotting capability. I assume just the first.

That raises the question, whether scouts, COLTs, and the like with binoculars or imaging sights would see beyond the yellow lines. If the yellow lines indicate unit visibility that could be the case. If the yellow lines indicate maximum unit spotting under perfect conditions that would not be the case. In the latter situation then non-observers would have less visibility than observers.

I know I am probably confusing some issues esp regarding spotting vs visibility but I think that is because I don't really understand what the LOS tool shows.

Maybe it is neither unit visibility or unit spotting but just unaided perfect weather daytime terrain visibility and you have to infer unit visibility and unit spotting from the terrain visibility plus other factors, such as weather, nighttime, IR capabilities, movement, and observer vs non-observer status? If so how would I go from what the LOS tool shows to unit visibility and unit spotting?

Thanks!

Bill

P.S. These questions arise in the Anaconda scenarios since in Anaconda 1 you don't want to be spotted (unit visibility) and it's nighttime with snow flurries, and in Anaconda 2 you want to be able to figure out what AQ or Taliban units could see at different locations where they might be (enemy unit spotting capability). In both cases I used the LOS tool and interpreted it directly as what I was looking for.

 

[Pat Proctor]

The purple circle shows the range to that mythical T-80 in perfect weather. The lines extend beyond that circle to show visibility for bigger or moving targets. I wish I could give you a clean formula for how sighting is done, but the actual algorithm is dozens of line of code long.

 

[WMurray]

The purple circle shows the range to that mythical T-80 in perfect weather. The lines extend beyond that circle to show visibility for bigger or moving targets. I wish I could give you a clean formula for how sighting is done, but the actual algorithm is dozens of line of code long.

Pat, thanks I was zoomed in too far to see the purple circle and had also forgot I could select units to see their LOS. Too bad you can’t select identified enemy units to see what they could see.

So it looks like the LOS tool, when clicked on a unit, gives me the unit’s potential spotting capabilities. And if I understand correctly, that is for perfect weather in the daytime so,

1. I also need to account for weather – e.g., in snow flurries visibility will be less than the yellow lines
   
2. daytime vs nighttime and sensors – e.g., if I flipped a scenario and could select OPFOR units then a T-80B would see less than a T-80U at night, even though the yellow lines would extend as far for each
   
3. speed – e.g., a moving unit would have its spotting capability reduced compared to a stationary one
   
4. whether in defilade or not – e.g., a unit in defilade would have its spotting capability reduced

So in all cases visibility may be up to the yellow lines or less, but never beyond the yellow lines or into the breaks within a single line. Have I got it right so far?

I suppose there are other factors such as suppression, and dead units see nothing, depending on one’s theological convictions. :halo:

 

[Pat Proctor]

Correct, except I could see situations where you could see beyond the lines. Say if you had an aircraft carrier sitting offshore. It is so big that, even though the lines don't extend that far, you can still see it.

Remember that in ATF, when you select info for a unit, lines are drawn to the units it can see. Similarly, when you select a unit in AATF, the units it can see are marked with yellow or red arrows.

 

[WMurray]

Remember that in ATF, when you select info for a unit, lines are drawn to the units it can see. Similarly, when you select a unit in AATF, the units it can see are marked with yellow or red arrows.

I had forgotten that and made little use of it before but now I can see better how it would be useful by interpreting the efficacy of observer placement.

Is this correct:

--yellow lines are vehicles that that the selected unit cannot identify, even tho the unit itself may be identified by others

--red lines are vehicles that the the selected unit can identify by itself

So, in my first attachment the scout near the PL STEVE label can only identify the BRDM-2 ATGM to its NE while all other vehicles it can see are unidentified.

In my second attachment I show how some of the vehicles, such as the tank (T-80B) close to the middle right edge of OBJ TEXAS, are identified by a nearby scout closer into the objective.

So, in summary, and simplifying a bit, the LOS tool gives me an idea what a unit could see while the info box lines show exactly what it can see at any time.

Right?

Converging on Enlightenment,

Bill

 

[Pat Proctor]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.