LOS? (PTO and Bamboo)

[SFiedler]

The hill obstacle combo confuses me.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Per B10.1 "Other terrain (e.g., grain, brush, woods, building) is at the higher level throughout the entire depiction of the terrain in question for LOS purposes (but the actual Crest Line is always used for movement purposes)J10, even if it appears to be rising from the lower level portion of the hill hex [EXC: Newer boards may depict visible Crest Lines beneath this other terrain (EX: 61F8), in which case the actual Crest Line is used to determine LOS as is the case with Inherent Terrain]J10.3A" so LOS is blocked in usual circumstances. Note however, the footnote does intimate players may choose to extrapolate the crest line if both agree to it and play that the brush (Bamboo in your example) that lies below the crest line simply rises from level 0. As always, it is best to hash this out with your opponent prior to play.

 

[SFiedler]

Thanks!

 

[Robin Reeve]

Sorry, but 10.1 says about Inherent Terrain (which Bamboo is) : "Inherent Terrain (B.6), whether a one-level Obstacle or Hindrance (e.g., orchard) or a half-level Obstacle (rubble) or Hindrance (crag, wreck) rises from the actual hill depiction (i.e., in a Hill-Orchard hex, LOS that crosses the hill depiction is affected up through level 2; LOS that does not cross the hill depiction is only affected through level 1)."

So LOS is not blocked in your case.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Sorry, but 10.1 says about Inherent Terrain (which Bamboo is) : "Inherent Terrain (B.6), whether a one-level Obstacle or Hindrance (e.g., orchard) or a half-level Obstacle (rubble) or Hindrance (crag, wreck) rises from the actual hill depiction (i.e., in a Hill-Orchard hex, LOS that crosses the hill depiction is affected up through level 2; LOS that does not cross the hill depiction is only affected through level 1)."

So LOS is not blocked in your case.

Read right past that. However, I have met some players that say one cannot adequately determine where the crest is if it is obscured by a terrain depiction and that possibly it juts out beneath the terrain thus making it rise from the higher level. I do not ascribe to that position and in "friendly" games we assume the crest follows a normal flow that is discernible by noting where it is shown in the hex. Glad you caught me here!?

 

[buser333]

Read right past that. However, I have met some players that say one cannot adequately determine where the crest is if it is obscured by a terrain depiction and that possibly it juts out beneath the terrain thus making it rise from the higher level. I do not ascribe to that position and in "friendly" games we assume the crest follows a normal flow that is discernible by noting where it is shown in the hex. Glad you caught me here!?

If that was the case in this particular instance I wouldn't want to play that player.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Read right past that. However, I have met some players that say one cannot adequately determine where the crest is if it is obscured by a terrain depiction and that possibly it juts out beneath the terrain thus making it rise from the higher level. I do not ascribe to that position and in "friendly" games we assume the crest follows a normal flow that is discernible by noting where it is shown in the hex. Glad you caught me here!?

Normally, Inherent Terrain - such as Orchards - lets the crest line visible.
The fact that Bamboo is derived from non Inherent Brush makes things less discernable.
Note that there is an erratum in the rule allowing to take the hill crest in consideration for non Inherent Terrain too:

[EXC: Newer boards may depict visible Crest Lines beneath this other terrain (EX: 61F8), in which case the actual Crest Line is used to determine LOS as is the case with Inherent Terrain]

 

[fzmann]

What happens if the LOS elevations are reflected correctly in the example? My instinct tells me LOS would be clear, but I'm not able to get to VASL right now.

 

[Robin Reeve]

What happens if the LOS elevations are reflected correctly in the example? My instinct tells me LOS would be clear, but I'm not able to get to VASL right now.

Why shouldn't they be "reflected correctly"?
What do you mean by that expression?

 

[fzmann]

I'm reacting to the red thread of the diagram. Of course that could be the OP's setup where the red thread has a different meaning than my setup. I'll check out on my own to see if LOS is unhindered which I think it is.

 

[zgrose]

Red is clear and blue is blocked, by default.

 

[fzmann]

Why shouldn't they be "reflected correctly"?
What do you mean by that expression?

specifically, CC3 is at level 2 and Y4 is at level 0. That's what I meant be the elevations being reflected correctly on the LOS check tool

 

[fzmann]

Red is clear and blue is blocked, by default.

Thanks. The red thread had me a bit confused relative to my setup

 

[Robin Reeve]

specifically, CC3 is at level 2 and Y4 is at level 0. That's what I meant be the elevations being reflected correctly on the LOS check tool

Ah, ok.
You were referring to VASL.