Loading Riders

[revaddict]

Can Riders load onto a vehicle that has just Prep Fired? I argue that this is legal because nothing in D6.4 prohibits it. Since loading requires the expenditure of MF by the boarding infantry but NOT MP by the vehicle being boarded, I see no reason why this should be illegal.

I realize that the opposite would not be the case because D6.5 explicitly says a vehicle must spend MP to UNload.

 

[ross]

Can Riders load onto a vehicle that has just Prep Fired? I argue that this is legal because nothing in D6.4 prohibits it. Since loading requires the expenditure of MF by the boarding infantry but NOT MP by the vehicle being boarded, I see no reason why this should be illegal.

I realize that the opposite would not be the case because D6.5 explicitly says a vehicle must spend MP to UNload.

I'm not sure about loading onto a Prep Fired vehicle, but do note that that D6.3 says, "it does cost MP to load/disembark them {Personnel}."

Later on in D6.4, we read: "The vehicle retains 1/4 of its MP allotment for use in that MPh for each MF remaining to the Infantry that board it. If more than one Infantry unit boards the vehicle, only the unit expending the most MF is counted. It costs one MF to board a vehicle from the same Location." So the vehicle is considered to have used up 1/4 of its MP allotment when Infantry hop aboard the vehicle.

Interesting enough, D6.5 says, "This does not prevent Passengers/Riders from leaving a vehicle that fired in the preceding PFPh and expended no MP in this MPh, although they could not leave the vehicle's Location during that MPh."

Hope this helps...

 

[revaddict]

Wow, this makes it even more complicated.

So a Prep fired vehicle can expend the MP required to unload infantry even though that vehicle fired and even though it cannot use MP to actually change Location. Okay. And this IS an expenditure of MP, for D6.5 does refer to the "cost" to unload.

But D6.4 does not say that a vehicle actually expends MP to load, however, that same rule does not explicitly state that Riders may load onto a Prep fired vehicle.

Can somebody PLEASE shed some light on this?

 

[apbills]

This is indeed a strange situation.

Given the D6.5 wording, allowing a passenger to unload after the vehicle Prep Fired, "Passengers/ Riders may leave a vehicle that fired in the preceding PFPh and expended no MP in this MPh,..."

and then applying D6.4 "A vehicle which was not in Motion and loads/unloads Passengers or Riders as its first action in the MPh is not considered a moving target for Case J To Hit purposes, but can be Defensive First Fired upon due to its expenditure of MP."

This is a direct contradiction (or exception?) to the basic rule concerning Prep Fire and Movement capability. (A3.3 The ATTACKER may move any units capable of movement which, during the PFPh neither fired, nor became marked for Opportunity Fire, nor attempted a labor task. ) as well as D2.1 "During his MPh, a player may move all, some, or none of his vehicular units, provided that each one he wishes to move did not fire during the preceding PFPh, is not TI, and is Mobile."

So how many MPs were used for DFF? Even the D6.4 rule implies that the expenditure of MPs are what allow the DFF. I assume the 1/4 MP number.

Based on what the rules state, I would say only unloading after Prep is allowed. Only because the rules actually state you can. How you would load them after Prep without an explicit exception? Very strange. :hmmm:

It truely goes against all the base rules concerning Prep/MPh actions. An Immobilized vehcile CAN expend MP, just not a start MP, therby allowign it to unload....

I ramble. Someone with more brain power than me will need to address this one. :hail: Perry....

 

[Georgii2222]

This is indeed a strange situation.

Given the D6.5 wording, allowing a passenger to unload after the vehicle Prep Fired, "Passengers/ Riders may leave a vehicle that fired in the preceding PFPh and expended no MP in this MPh,..."

and then applying D6.4 "A vehicle which was not in Motion and loads/unloads Passengers or Riders as its first action in the MPh is not considered a moving target for Case J To Hit purposes, but can be Defensive First Fired upon due to its expenditure of MP."

This is a direct contradiction (or exception?) to the basic rule concerning Prep Fire and Movement capability. (A3.3 The ATTACKER may move any units capable of movement which, during the PFPh neither fired, nor became marked for Opportunity Fire, nor attempted a labor task. ) as well as D2.1 "During his MPh, a player may move all, some, or none of his vehicular units, provided that each one he wishes to move did not fire during the preceding PFPh, is not TI, and is Mobile."

So how many MPs were used for DFF? Even the D6.4 rule implies that the expenditure of MPs are what allow the DFF. I assume the 1/4 MP number.

Based on what the rules state, I would say only unloading after Prep is allowed. Only because the rules actually state you can. How you would load them after Prep without an explicit exception? Very strange. :hmmm:

It truely goes against all the base rules concerning Prep/MPh actions. An Immobilized vehcile CAN expend MP, just not a start MP, therby allowign it to unload....

I ramble. Someone with more brain power than me will need to address this one. :hail: Perry....

I would just go with COWTRA.... Unloading after Prep is explicitly allowed, so it can be done. Loading is *not* specifically allowed, therefore it can not be done. No clarification neccessary.

 

[The Purist]

I would just go with COWTRA.... Unloading after Prep is explicitly allowed, so it can be done. Loading is *not* specifically allowed, therefore it can not be done. No clarification neccessary.

apbills. I would go with Georgii on this one, it's definitely looks like COWTRA. Other than that you could also look at the unloading but not moving from the hex after the vehicle preps as a nod to not penalizing the passenger or as a 'work around' to fix a contradiction.