Legendary Heroes Is a Hit

[Scott Tortorice]

Funny how gamers often display a hive mind when it comes to certain games. It is like somebody throws a switch and everybody starts agreeing on the state of s particular game. Case in point: Elemental:Fallen Enchantress:Legendary Heroes. As I remarked in a different threat, with the arrival of v1.3, Legendary Heroes is suddenly breaking away from the mediocrity of Fallen Enchantress and achieving what we all hoped this franchise was going to achieve back with the launch of the failed Elemental. Stardock's magic is starting to show again.

Brad Wardell posted a dev journal today that seems to indicate that a lot of other gamers are starting to finally embrace the franchise...even if the name is confusing them.

[h=2]Iterating further on Elemental[/h]

I was playing Galactic Civilizations II last night. I hadn’t played it in a very long time and was stunned by just how much…awesome it has in it. That awesomeness didn’t come from the original design. It came from years and years of iteration and frankly, labors of love.


The problem I see with Legendary Heroes is that it’s really hard to do iteration like that. After all, it’s technically Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes. It’s a mouth full. No one calls GalCiv II “Twilight of the Arnor”. It’s just called GalCiv.


But Elemental got off to such a rocky start that for good or bad, we don’t really call it Elemental anymore. If the quality and fandom that supports Legendary Heroes could somehow be applied to Elemental that would be great. But it’s not. It’s barely applied to Fallen Enchantress.


Frankly, from a purely a branding perspective – i.e. the THING that people remember playing, we basically call it Legendary Heroes. It’s just really hosed up.


Then you have the DLC situation. The DLC for Legendary Heroes doesn’t just sell well. It sells insanely well. There’s a huge demand for it because the installed base of the game we call Legendary Heroes (but is really Elemental: Fallen Enchantress – Legendary Heroes) keeps growing.


I know some people don’t care about the name. But the reality is, the single biggest thing holding LH back is the brand confusion. I’ve seen people on various forums say that LH is probably the best fantasy 4X that is currently available (though Age of Wonders 3 is looking pretty awesome).


So we have this great fantasy game that we have the budget to keep iterating on that is artificially held down because no one really knows what to call it.

I am glad to see that other gamers are now loving the game, too.

 

[Nexus6]

Wow Scott, this certainly is a far cry from the days when you thought that the Elemental/Fallen Enchantress series was fundamentally flawed at its core and a lost cause. That's cool though, as Doctor Who once said, "The right to be wrong is one of the fundamental freedoms." As an aside, with me it's mostly the opposite. That is, there have been many games I'm initially really jazzed about, but the more I played them the less thrilled I was with them. Mind you I still think Mr. Wardell comes off a bit pompous and pretentious, but be that as it may, I did like Fallen Enchatress enough to be interested in picking up Legendary Heroes at some point (I suppose it's fortunate that its main competitor, Age of Wonders 3, won't be out for another 3-6 months probably).

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Wow Scott, this certainly is a far cry from the days when you thought that the Elemental/Fallen Enchantress series was fundamentally flawed at its core and a lost cause.

Yeah, it is! If you remember, when Stardock had a poll on whether or not they should continue working on the Elemental franchise (post Fallen Enchantress) I voted no! I was that down on the series. But something happened when they made the switch to Legendary Heroes that just catapulted the series into where it should had been at launch with Elemental. All the disparate game ideas that held back WoM and FE now are jelling together in a very addictive fashion. I think Game Informer had the best quote on the progress found in this game:

None of Legendary Heroes' rough spots keep it from being an excellent game that I recommend with no reservations. Stardock has finally delivered on the promise that Elemental once held, back in the halcyon days of 2009. You don't have to be any kind of strategy savant to appreciate what this exceptional release has to offer.

I think it is telling that I have almost five hours in my first LH campaign, and can't wait to go back for more. I don't think I invested five hours in WoM & FE combined.

However, like the blurb mentions, there are still more than a few bugs, some that have been (incredibly) with the series since WoM - such as glitchy mouse pointers, quirky AI, crashing. The forthcoming v1.4 is supposed to address a big chunk of this, but based on Wardell and Paxton mentioning that they have a "laundry list" of things they want to fix and add, I think LH is going to play out like GalCiv 2: years of patching and added content before it is truly "done". If you haven't purchased it yet, I would wait for 1.4 at a minimum.

That is, there have been many games I'm initially really jazzed about, but the more I played them the less thrilled I was with them.

That's just about every game with me, too! Wanting is better than having in the world of gaming.

...I did like Fallen Enchatress enough to be interested in picking up Legendary Heroes at some point (I suppose it's fortunate that its main competitor, Age of Wonders 3, won't be out for another 3-6 months probably).

I am curious to see how the two match up. I was looking at some vids on the AoW3 website and was struck by how similar the two games are. The only real distinction I could see was that AoW3 has naval vessels. :hurray: I am still annoyed that naval warfare was scrapped for Elemental. Hopefully we will get this, and family dynastics, back in a later expansion.

 

[Nexus6]

That is so true about how in the world of gaming, and for that matter real life in general, wanting and anticipating is usually always better than receiving. Funny how that works. I would add though that I recall how much I eagerly anticipated Skyrim. I pre-ordered the collector's edition and went to the midnight release at the local Game Stop. That was so cool communing with all the Elder Scrolls fans there. It was like an Elder Scrolls party. But anyway, I'm happy to say that I was in heaven for about the first 50-100 hours of playing Skyrim, so in that case receiving was almost as much fun as wanting.

You only played FE five hours? Wow! I sunk at least 30-40 hours into it.

Having played Age of Wonders 2 extensively, I don't think they are anything alike. To me they were completely different gaming experiences, in spite of the fact that they are both turned based high fantasy strategy sims. At any rate although my heart is with the AoW series, I imagine I'll give Legendary Heroes a try while waiting for the release of AoW3. I was thinking it would be cool to use the FE:LH custom faction generator to try to create the Norn from Guild Wars 2.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

That is so true about how in the world of gaming, and for that matter real life in general, wanting and anticipating is usually always better than receiving. Funny how that works. I would add though that I recall how much I eagerly anticipated Skyrim. I pre-ordered the collector's edition and went to the midnight release at the local Game Stop. That was so cool communing with all the Elder Scrolls fans there. It was like an Elder Scrolls party. But anyway, I'm happy to say that I was in heaven for about the first 50-100 hours of playing Skyrim, so in that case receiving was almost as much fun as wanting.

That sounds really cool. Never did anything like that.

But anyway, I'm happy to say that I was in heaven for about the first 50-100 hours of playing Skyrim, so in that case receiving was almost as much fun as wanting.

The "first 50-100 hours"?!? I only have 60 hours TOTAL!

You only played FE five hours? Wow! I sunk at least 30-40 hours into it.

I think I have the most hours in Elemental: War of Magic: it must be around 20-25 hours for that game because every time they released a mega-patch, I would jump back in and play for a few hours. But for Fallen Enchantress, I don't think it is far off the mark to say 5-8 hours total. That game just didn't do anything for me. It was better than EWoM of course, but it still felt too close to the muddled mechanics of EWoM. This is why I am so surprised that I am taking so well to Legendary Heroes. I only installed it in a fit of boredom to see what it was like (and to get some clues about GalCiv III, of course ). I was really blown away by how the game finally felt like a fresh release rather than a EWoM zombie that was still shambling along (dropping parts along the way ). Come to think of it, maybe that is why LH feels so much better: Stardock cut out huge chunks of EWoM when they moved on to FE - a smart move seeing how large portions of that game had no purpose, or were outright contradictory to other gameplay elements. By bringing the game down to some core mechanics, they could then iterate on them to the point where they felt like they made sense and were contributing to the gameplay in an interesting and holistic fashion. I think that is why LH feels so solid now.

Having played Age of Wonders 2 extensively, I don't think they are anything alike. To me they were completely different gaming experiences, in spite of the fact that they are both turned based high fantasy strategy sims. At any rate although my heart is with the AoW series, I imagine I'll give Legendary Heroes a try while waiting for the release of AoW3. I was thinking it would be cool to use the FE:LH custom faction generator to try to create the Norn from Guild Wars 2.

I am curious: I never played an AoW title, so how does it differ from Elemental?

 

[Nexus6]

OK, I'll do my best.....

1) Strategic spells were handled much, much better in AoW2. The interface was very easy to use, and you'll find yourself using strategic spells much more than you ever would in FE. Stuff like weather control, blight, etc. were really cool graphically as well as being very useful. For example, I recall several times using strategic spells to slow up the advance of large enemy forces while I was in the process of gathering my army. They were also useful in inflicting attrition on enemy forces, softening them up and making them easier to defeat. By contrast, the strategic spells in FE always seemed like a chore to use, nor was their impact as noticeable as they were in AoW2.

2) I believe AoW2 used (invisible) hexes for movement, whereas FE used squares. Of course hexes are much better. Movement in AoW2 seemed faster as well, as compared to the more slow and civ-like movement of units in FE.

3) The battles in FE feel like small, low-level skirmishes, whereas battles in AoW2 could be truly epic, especially town sieges. There was a limit on the number of units that could be deployed for any battle, but again, they felt a lot more like epic high fantasy battles than the FE skirmishes.

4) Hate to be too, too critical here, but the scripted campaign in FE was a joke, whereas in AoW2 it was amazing. Your task was to investigate all the spheres of magic and curry the favor of the races that followed their respective schools. It made for some very engaging storytelling and was just plain fun. I think I've been through the AoW2 campaign at least twice. The AoW2 campaign definitely proved Mr. Wardell wrong when he wrote that he didn't think 4x sandbox games lent themselves well to single player story driven campaigns. To me that seemed like a convenient excuse for not including deep and rich single player campaigns in FE and SINS.

5) I felt myself much more engaged and attached to my heroes in AoW2 than I ever did in FE. Not sure why that is.

6) The races in FE maybe feel a bit generic and too similar at times, but in AoW2 they are vastly different, both in appearance as well as combat capabilities. They seemed pretty well balanced for the most part too, and it was amazing that Triumph created so many (20-24 I think).

BTW, it's good to see that FE is doing OK. Again, I liked it more than I didn't. However, don't you think that calling it a 'hit' is maybe a bit rich? On Metacritic the critic reviews have averaged 80 and the user reviews 7.5. Definitely respectable numbers, but not what I would call a blockbuster.

 

[Nexus6]

BTW, if you haven't noticed, I like criticizing your sacred cow, Brad Wardell and Stardock. Guess my ornery side is coming through.

It's also interesting to note someone wrote on the Steam forum that he thought Wardell was a good game designer and a terrible writer, and unfortunately he's trying to move out of the former and more into the latter. Hmmm.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

BTW, if you haven't noticed, I like criticizing your sacred cow, Brad Wardell and Stardock. Guess my ornery side is coming through.

Stardock isn't a sacred cow of mine. I've been plenty critical of them in the past, especially over the Elemental fiasco. But I do admire Wardell and his company: when they screw up, the admit it and try to make things right. I didn't think we would ever have a good Elemental game, but I have to say that LH is proving to be just that: a good game. I figure with another expansion under its belt, particularly one that gives us naval warfare, Elemental could now be the best 4X fantasy game on the market.

BTW, it's good to see that FE is doing OK. Again, I liked it more than I didn't. However, don't you think that calling it a 'hit' is maybe a bit rich? On Metacritic the critic reviews have averaged 80 and the user reviews 7.5. Definitely respectable numbers, but not what I would call a blockbuster.

I don't think it is rich to call LH a hit. Wardell himself has said that the "DLC for Legendary Heroes doesn’t just sell well. It sells insanely well. There’s a huge demand for it because the installed base of the game we call Legendary Heroes...keeps growing." Now, I would be inclined to dismiss some of that as the hubris of a game publisher, but like I said earlier, if you check out different game forums, suddenly everyone is really excited over the game. Even the Steam forums are full of people gushing over the game - and Steam forums are usually filled with nothing but cranks. :laugh:

BTW: Speaking of the Steam forum for LH: somebody posted a thread asking if LH is as good as Age of Wonders, his favorite game. I hate to tell you this but 75% of the replies said that with the exception of the campaign (all agreed with you that the AOW campaign was far superior), the rest of the Legendary Heroes game is as good as if not better than AoW. That surprised me seeing how classic games are usually hard to dethrone!


Sorry to say I had to end my first LH campaign today because v1.4 has been released. Just as well: I bought that DLC pack and I don't think it becomes operative with an old campaign. According to my stats, my first campaign lasted 10.4 hours(!), and my sov ruled for 106 years (212 turns!), and amassed a pop of 1475. I was third in the rankings. The final map position:

View attachment 43184

I only ever settled one city - I conquered the rest! I was currently at war with two other empires who were sending stacks of armies at me (bright red and dark red counters). I think I would have won the war against one of them at a minimum as I had made some great shock troops.

View attachment 43185

My mounted men in the middle were my Thunder Hammers. Armored with chainmail, and wielding lightning hammers, they crushed everything they got close enough to hit! Even my regular troops were pretty tough given the "Berserk" trait (the ones with the red blood mist around them).


I have to get around to trying some mods. I think another sign of the success of LH is that the mod community is finally taking off. There are a bunch of minor mods that tweak a few things (there is one that adds random loot drops - I MUST try that!), but there are also a few major overhauls, including one that adds a bunch of traditional fantasy races. This mod is getting rave reviews already.

 

[Nexus6]

To be fair, I haven't totally knocked FE: LH off my wish list of possible future purchases, but you must admit that this screen from Age of Wonders 3 totally blows away anything you're going to see in FE: LH:
View attachment 43187

Also, I detect a serious conflict of interest with Wardell saying LH has sold insanely well. I'm reminded of a musician I knew who wrote on his MySpace page that sales of his CD have been encouraging. Of course he said this in an attempt to drum up sales. Not to press the point too hard, but I don't see LH anywhere on the Steam best seller list, so I'm definitely taking what his nibs Wardell said with a grain of salt.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

To be fair, I haven't totally knocked FE: LH off my wish list of possible future purchases, but you must admit that this screen from Age of Wonders 3 totally blows away anything you're going to see in FE: LH:
View attachment 43187

That reminds me of the strategic map of Medieval 2: Total War, down to the armies marching about. I hope that is a good sign since you really have me hyped for this game.

You said some stuff in the previous post that I wanted to address:

1) Strategic spells were handled much, much better in AoW2. The interface was very easy to use, and you'll find yourself using strategic spells much more than you ever would in FE. Stuff like weather control, blight, etc. were really cool graphically as well as being very useful. For example, I recall several times using strategic spells to slow up the advance of large enemy forces while I was in the process of gathering my army. They were also useful in inflicting attrition on enemy forces, softening them up and making them easier to defeat. By contrast, the strategic spells in FE always seemed like a chore to use, nor was their impact as noticeable as they were in AoW2.

I completely agree with this. It is VERY telling that when I start playing a session of FE/LH, I often FORGET there are any strategic spells! The game is surprisingly mum when it comes to getting the player to use more strategic spells. Now, there are some good ones in LH - I often use the Pillar of Flame spell that attrits enemy armies quite effectively with a fireball, and I also like to curse enemy cities with higher disorder levels - but the strategic spells often feel like an afterthought to the tactical spells. I think Warlock handled strategic spells in a better fashion too, but that is understandable seeing how that game didn't have anything but a strategic map.

2) I believe AoW2 used (invisible) hexes for movement, whereas FE used squares. Of course hexes are much better. Movement in AoW2 seemed faster as well, as compared to the more slow and civ-like movement of units in FE.

Agreed. I recall that when Wardell insisted on squares (it was his idea because he likes it when his troops "can move sideways") a lot of people complained about the lack of hexes. Personally I prefer hexes too, but the squares in FE/LH really had no perceptible negative impact on the gameplay. But it IS interesting that GalCiv III has announced that it is ditching GalCiv II's squares for hexes.

Not to press the point too hard, but I don't see LH anywhere on the Steam best seller list, so I'm definitely taking what his nibs Wardell said with a grain of salt.

Well, I suppose it all depends on what you consider to be good sales. I know Wardell has been down on the future of the Elemental series because he doesn't believe it will ever overcome the bad press of the original's launch fiasco. So maybe it is selling better than he ever though possible. However, I did find it interesting that as of last night, Steam listed Legendary Heroes as its 97th most played game late that evening (around 400-odd people), with it achieving a higher ranking earlier in the day (just under 900 people were playing it at once). Not too shabby for a 4X fantasy game.

 

[Nexus6]

Wow Scott, I am impressed by your reply. I had fully expected you to read me the riot act!

Anyway, I still need to try FE:LH, what with it's very reasonable sale price tag, and the fact that we won't be seeing AoW3 for at least 3-5 months yet. And yeah, I will be keeping my eye on GalCiv3. I must confess that I probably didn't flesh out GalCiv2 nearly as much as I should have. Think I spent maybe ten hours total on it.

Speaking of Warlock, I thought Paradox did a mostly good job on it, and I do kind of like the Majesty milieu upon which it was based. Not sure what happened with me and that game though? I played it heavily for about three weeks, then lost interest.

One more thing concerning Stardock. For some odd reason I've been getting a mild itch to reload SINS. Love those big Advent capital ships with the cool names. Did I mention that I used the SINS Advent ship skins the last time I played Distant Worlds???

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Wow Scott, I am impressed by your reply. I had fully expected you to read me the riot act!

You really have to get over this idea that I am a Stardock fanboi. Yes, I like their pluck, but I also recognize their flaws. Speaking of which...I have put the game down for the moment because of one issue that is really getting on my nerves: the Diplo AI. I am repeatedly finding myself in wars with other sovs whom I have virtually no contact with. It is getting so crazy that in my current game I have had moments where the entire world was at war with me simultaneously! Literally every AI sov wardec-ed me even though I only actually shared borders with one AI. It is particularly bizarre that even the dead last sov, who was under attack from another enemy and fighting for his life (even asking me for help!), also declared war on me for no reason (no shared borders or anything! And I had just given him aid against our shared foe!). Occasionally, one or two of these other sovs would come to their senses and make peace (we hadn't even exchanged any blows - war and peace for no apparent reason). But sure enough, a dozen or turns later, another wardec for no apparent reason.

Something isn't right here.

Interestingly, Brad Wardell himself commented in the post I started on this issue:

I'm working on the diplomacy features for 1.5 right now. It's getting the biggest revamp since the original release of Fallen Enchantress.

There are really two broad problems with it:

1. There are a lot of different variables that determine relations but not a lot of controllers (i.e. they're either on or off without any conditions other than true or false). This is being changed so that the relation modifiers start to show up based on your existing relations.

2. It doesn't really communicate well to the player why relations are what they are. So the AI is going to communicate more with players on the different things they're doing.

See, Nexus? That is Stardock's legendary customer service.

I am looking forward to these changes as right now war and peace seems completely random.

And yeah, I will be keeping my eye on GalCiv3. I must confess that I probably didn't flesh out GalCiv2 nearly as much as I should have. Think I spent maybe ten hours total on it.

I just reinstalled it and I am having a really good time with it again. One of the things I really like about GalCiv 2 is how planets are useful for something other than cap points. I recall in one game I turned an entire planet into a border espionage facility: it was loaded with intelligence gathering and influence generating buildings.

Speaking of Warlock, I thought Paradox did a mostly good job on it, and I do kind of like the Majesty milieu upon which it was based.

Me, too. Fun game. I am glad to see Warlock 2 is on the way. As for Majesty, it was also a fun game but the devs seemed to abandon it quickly and move on to Warlock.

One more thing concerning Stardock. For some odd reason I've been getting a mild itch to reload SINS. Love those big Advent capital ships with the cool names. Did I mention that I used the SINS Advent ship skins the last time I played Distant Worlds???

I didn't know somebody made a Sins mod for that game.

For some reason I have burnt out on Sins. I loaded it up the other day but just couldn't get into a game. When it comes to an RTS space game, AI War is my favorite for the moment.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

New DLC announced!

Design your own undead army or lead the Empire of the Dead to dominion over the living
in the latest DLC for Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes.


​

The ancient sorcerer now known as Morrigan the Risen returns to leave another black stain on history as he leads the Empire of the Dead in his skeletal form. All-new mechanics change the way undead empires form and grow; they grow their population by spreading cemeteries and mausoleums rather than farming food like lesser races. Undead casters enjoy all-new spells, including the abilities to feed on the lifeforce of friendly units and even conjure a powerful but temporary army from nothing.

Fearsome monsters await in the Dead World. Undead varieties of the already-terrifying half-spider Brood and the never-before-seen hell knights challenge adventurers and armies alike. A new hand-crafted map holds carefully placed secrets to discover.

The Dead World DLC Features

• A brand new faction: the Empire of the Dead, led by the nefarious sorcerer Morrigan the Risen. Undead ignore food, growing their population by building cemetaries and mausoleums and by reanimating slain foes
• New spells for undead casters – summon a powerful but temporary army, feed on the lifeforce of friendly units in battle, and more
• New undead empire fully implemented in faction/army creators – design your own skeletal and spectral troops
• New custom map: The Dead World
• New Hellknight monsters – powerful mounted undead knights with enchanted gear
• New Risen Brood monsters – skeletal undead half-spider monstrosities

I think this is where LH can really shine: Stardock can pump this stuff out effortlessly and add a heck of a lot of chrome in short order.

 

[Wodin]

Must admi I found it very enjoyable and a worthwhile purchase...though it was about time they finally got it right.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Must admi I found it very enjoyable and a worthwhile purchase...though it was about time they finally got it right.

Exactly. :laugh:

 

[Nexus6]

Yeah Scott, I have a lot of respect for you, but I admit that sometimes I wondered if you were a Stardock fanboy. Glad to see that's not the case.

BTW, you mentioned Majesty. That was actually the most different and unusual RTS I'd played in years. I really applaud Paradox on that one for trying to be different. The only reason I gave up on it was that it got insanely difficult about 3/4 of the way through the campaign. Come to think of it, it seems to me that Majesty wasn't the only Paradox game I'd played that got over-the-top difficult.

Concerning FE, glad to see they are working on the diplomacy. I too had that happen to me where I had everybody hating me and had no idea why. BTW, come to think of it, Age of Wonders 2 was rather weak when it came to diplomacy, though it didn't seem to hurt the game too much. I look forward to it being greatly improved though in AoW3.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Yeah Scott, I have a lot of respect for you, but I admit that sometimes I wondered if you were a Stardock fanboy. Glad to see that's not the case.

See, if you would have called me a Valve fanboi, that would have been a different story.

BTW, you mentioned Majesty. That was actually the most different and unusual RTS I'd played in years. I really applaud Paradox on that one for trying to be different. The only reason I gave up on it was that it got insanely difficult about 3/4 of the way through the campaign. Come to think of it, it seems to me that Majesty wasn't the only Paradox game I'd played that got over-the-top difficult.

It was tough. I found it tough even early on. But like you said, I thought it was a refreshingly different game. I was sorry to see it dropped so quickly.

Concerning FE, glad to see they are working on the diplomacy. I too had that happen to me where I had everybody hating me and had no idea why. BTW, come to think of it, Age of Wonders 2 was rather weak when it came to diplomacy, though it didn't seem to hurt the game too much. I look forward to it being greatly improved though in AoW3

.

Yeah, the diplomacy makes no sense. I was only a two-city power, minding his own business exploring the land, and all of a sudden every AI piles on for no good reason. It ruined the game for me because it brought the game to a crashing halt because I was so busy fending off raids from EVERY SOVEREIGN ON THE PLANET that I couldn't do anything else. I have since managed to stop some of the raiding by paying tribute to 2/5 aggressors, but even that is just a game-y way of stopping the aggression. No, the AI definitely needs an overhaul...and bad.

BTW: that last bit of Dead DLC also needs some bug fixing. Glad I didn't get it yet as it seems a bit sloppily made based on comments in the FH support forum. I really don't understand why Stardock keeps falling into this same pitfall time and again. Their QA still seems to suffer for some reason. I hope something changes for the better for GalCiv III as I don't think I could survive another multi-year post-release patching process.

 

[Nexus6]

Valve as in Steam, or the Half-Life series? Speaking of Steam, I learned the VERY hard way years ago never to change your e-mail address and delete your old one before changing it in Steam first. I did and I was SOL when it came to recovering the games I had on my account. Their customer support, like everyone else's these days, is all but non-existent. That said, I have to agree that they are incredibly convenient, and the Steam workshop is great. I remember how much time it took and what a pain in the arse it was to do Fallout mods before the advent of the Workshop. Still, however, I have the nagging feeling that they are something of a monopoly, and being a monopoly means that they have us, the customers, by the balls. In fact I recall a coworker years ago claiming that he was getting out of PC gaming on account of Steam and DRM. I'd be curious to find out if he was as good as his word.

Caveat: Come to think of it, almost all the mmo's I've been playing this year have been outside of Steam. The notable exception was Secret World. I didn't know any better at the time and I loaded it through Steam, and man what a bitch it was getting it to work having to go through two layers of verification. It's also interesting to note that Steam has the original Guild Wars, but not GW2. Interesting that. Guess Anet's holding company, the Korean company NC Soft, doesn't like Valve much.

 

[Scott Tortorice]

Valve as in Steam, or the Half-Life series? Speaking of Steam, I learned the VERY hard way years ago never to change your e-mail address and delete your old one before changing it in Steam first. I did and I was SOL when it came to recovering the games I had on my account. Their customer support, like everyone else's these days, is all but non-existent. That said, I have to agree that they are incredibly convenient, and the Steam workshop is great. I remember how much time it took and what a pain in the arse it was to do Fallout mods before the advent of the Workshop. Still, however, I have the nagging feeling that they are something of a monopoly, and being a monopoly means that they have us, the customers, by the balls. In fact I recall a coworker years ago claiming that he was getting out of PC gaming on account of Steam and DRM. I'd be curious to find out if he was as good as his word.

It is a good point about a monopoly. And now you have Steam getting into the hardware end of things as well. Software and hardware = a complete monopoly on PC gaming. I am actually surprised to see how many devs, and even other digital distributors, are agreeing to this monopoly. I mean, you have devs that are just releasing their titles on Steam, and you other digital distributors (such as Gamers Gate) who are basically selling little more than Steam keys for games. Could you imagine, say, Ford selling a car that you needed to pick up at the Chrysler factory?!? LOL! Really, really weird.

BTW: did you see that Matrix has now jumped on the early access bandwagon? Yup. I know you are going to be thrilled to hear that. :laugh:

Caveat: Come to think of it, almost all the mmo's I've been playing this year have been outside of Steam. The notable exception was Secret World. I didn't know any better at the time and I loaded it through Steam, and man what a bitch it was getting it to work having to go through two layers of verification. It's also interesting to note that Steam has the original Guild Wars, but not GW2. Interesting that. Guess Anet's holding company, the Korean company NC Soft, doesn't like Valve much.

Like I wrote above, I am surprised to see how many other devs DONT do this. Only EA seems to be holding out with their awful Origin.