LATW

[JCusick]

During Russian MPh a German 1st line squad has a LATW.
The German D1F’s then SFF at moving Russian squad.

Can the German fire his LATW at a Russian tank that moves?
If he had only D1F would this make a difference in the answer?

 

[Eagle4ty]

1. Can the German fire his LATW at a Russian tank that moves?
A. No. See 3.3.3 Where it says "After the attack is resolved, flip the First Fire counter over to its Final Fire side for the unit and
all its Weapons (whether or not they all fired)."
2. If he had only D1F would this make a difference in the answer?
A. Yes. A unit can use its IFP as D1F and a LATW as well [EXC: Of course if it had fired its IFP first and cowered] and still be eligible to use its IFP as S1F.

 

[Jwil2020]

I have a similar question.
A situation came up recently, and here is how I handled it:

Russian full squad w/ATR.
German ATV comes rumbling up- two hex range.
Russian fires ATR at the AFV.

I marked the the ATR as Final Fire since it has no ROF and is not a MG which can fire later in SFF or FPF, but I did not mark the squad.

Now a German squad goes scampering by at three hex range.

Since the Russian squad is not marked with a First or Final Fire marker, I took a DFF on it (using the squad's full IFP and DFF procedures (and not SFF which would have limited its range to 2 hexes or less -the KEU 2 hexes away- plus Area Fire).

Am I on the right track, or hopelessly lost?

Thanks,
Jack

 

[Robin Reeve]

I think that you should have marked the ATR with a First Fire counter.

 

[Jwil2020]

I think that you should have marked the ATR with a First Fire counter.

But wouldn't that imply the ATR is eligible for SFF?
However, regardless of what marker should be placed on the ATR, am I right that the squad should be able to fire its full IFP at the moving squad?

 

[von Marwitz]

But wouldn't that imply the ATR is eligible for SFF?

Marking the ATR with a First Fire counter implies, that is has (First) Fired in your oppo's Movement Phase.
No defending unit in the Defensive Fire Phase is ever marked with a 'First Fire' counter.

However, regardless of what marker should be placed on the ATR, am I right that the squad should be able to fire its full IFP at the moving squad?

Yes.

Theoretically - needless to say in this game - there is also a possibilty for a 'No':
Imagine you want to fire the ATR vs. Infantry with 1FP at a range of 12 hexes (which is outside of the long range of the inherent FP of your squad), you could do so. But if that attack Cowered, then your squad would be marked with 'Final Fire' despite it has not fired before. It would then not be able to fire inherent any more, except as Final Protective Fire.

If you fire your ATR as a To Hit roll as you will have done against that tank, then the attack cannot Cower - no Cowering on TH rolls.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

You would also mark a BAZ, PIAT or PSK with First Fire.
As long as you know that the ATR may not be used for SFF/FPF, it is ok.
I think that it still could be used as Final Fire vs an adjacent target during the DFPh, at half FP (probably doubled for PBF).

 

[Jwil2020]

Thanks guys!

 

[Jwil2020]

No defending unit in the Defensive Fire Phase is ever marked with a 'First Fire' counter.

Sorry, I should have made clear the Germans are moving in their MPh, and Russians are using Defensive First Fire procedures.

 

[JAGgamer]

EDIT My mistake: This thread was for SK and we were not play g SK when the incident described below happened. Sorry for the confusion.

OK, what about this situation? Finnish 1/2 squad w/ 'Schreck burning wrecks a Russian tank at range 0 (was HIP and tank entered hex). 1/2 squad is marked First Fire. Later, in same movement phase, another Russian tank rolls up to range 1 hex away and stops.

In Defensive Fire Phase, may the 1/2 squad fire the 'schreck again against an adjacent tank? I believe the answer is yes. But, I also believe it is open to interpretation. When it happened, we played it such that there was no additional 'schreck shot in the Def Fire Phase.

The 'schreck is a SW. In Def Fire Phase infantry may fire inherent and SW as area fire. The 'schreck is ordnance. I believe 1/2 squad may fire again w/ a penalty (NRBH but I want to say Case D. This would apply b/c the 1/2 sqd would fire its Infantry firepower as 1/2 for firing as defensive fire while marked as first fired. It would be same effect as area fire penalty.)

 

[Eagle4ty]

EDIT My mistake: This thread was for SK and we were not play g SK when the incident described below happened. Sorry for the confusion.

OK, what about this situation? Finnish 1/2 squad w/ 'Schreck burning wrecks a Russian tank at range 0 (was HIP and tank entered hex). 1/2 squad is marked First Fire. Later, in same movement phase, another Russian tank rolls up to range 1 hex away and stops.

In Defensive Fire Phase, may the 1/2 squad fire the 'schreck again against an adjacent tank? I believe the answer is yes. But, I also believe it is open to interpretation. When it happened, we played it such that there was no additional 'schreck shot in the Def Fire Phase.

The 'schreck is a SW. In Def Fire Phase infantry may fire inherent and SW as area fire. The 'schreck is ordnance. I believe 1/2 squad may fire again w/ a penalty (NRBH but I want to say Case D. This would apply b/c the 1/2 sqd would fire its Infantry firepower as 1/2 for firing as defensive fire while marked as first fired. It would be same effect as area fire penalty.)

I believe you asked this in another thread, but here's the answer again:

No the PSK cannot defensive fire fire again in any circumstance as C5.6 disallows any SW the ability to Intensive Fire in ASL. In ASLSK 3.2.4 under Intensive Fire states, A Gun/MA (not SW) that has fired and lost ROF can still fire again once in the same phase by using Intensive Fire. (And for purposes of Defensive Fire, the DFPh exists during the opponent's MPh as Defensive First Fire per 3.3.3). Also 4.4 LATW describes these weapons as both ordnance and SW, "LATWs are Ordnance SW, including Bazooka (BAZ), Panzerfaust (PF), PIAT, Anti-Tank Rifle (ATR), and Panzerschreck (PSK)."