Last one out...

[Palantir]

Will the last one out please lock the door?

Just like many other "original" players of "LotRO- SoA" I just spent more time shutting down my characters then I've played them in months.

I emptied my houses & Kinship Hall of all the items I "earned," was awarded for playing and I crafted. I also emptied all my chests of potions, food, rep items- the lot. All done just in case Turbine ever gets around to kicking players out of their defaulted rents & deleting the stuff inside.

During the time of jumping back & forth between characters & accounts I was endlessly & shamelessly beaten about the head with one screen after another blaring "buy, buy, buy," and NOT ONE screen saying anything about earning anything via playing the dang game.

The unrelenting street hawking finally drove me away, plus the dumbing down of the game. I just could not take all the mobs being so deaf & blind and facing away from roads, trails and entrances like they were all taking a pee break against walls & trees.

I'll probably log in to the game once a month to keep my accounts active - although I did have one house already locked up for failure to keep up the rent.

Maybe when Isengard, Rohan or the Northern Misty Mountains goes live I'll get back into the game and check it out again. But the updates with just more raids & skirmishes hold no interest for me nor do the festivals. Maybe they could update the housing issue that has been asked for since day one and move the neighborhood entrances to the towns themselves?

The game still has great graphics, a great core story line, characters & action, definitely worth a F2P effort to look into. "Shadows of Angmar" set the bar for excellence very high for game-play but the new management’s bar is set at money at the expense of game play.

I can hope that WB will sell LotRO to a game company who can see the true value of the Middle Earth game before it's too late.

Till then, the road goes ever on…
:salute:

 

[Redwolf]

The only reason why I want to log in is to count how many people are still floating around. Got all my house stuff, at least what isn't invalidated by game changes. I wonder how "Gestapo" Sapience is doing on his forum.

Oh and if the game fails it is Tolkien's fault, obviously.

 

[Redwolf]

http://www.lotro.com/lotrostoreupdate3

* NEW! LOTRO Store Items Including a Combat Run Speed Boost
Now Available!

ETA:

+5% Attack Damage
The +5% Attack Damage item has had its minimum level requirements removed, and can now be used starting from level 1. The lesser damage buffs have been removed from the Store.

[edit]

 

[BlitzCanuck]

I only recently discovered that GS had this LOTRo forum and when i saw some familiar names i started to think it would be fun to join in some of the discussions here.
But my enthusiasm didn't last long after i started to scan some of the threads....... wow, you guys really don't like this game much.
I've never seen so much discussion over a game that nobody likes and nobody plays.

 

[Redwolf]

I only recently discovered that GS had this LOTRo forum and when i saw some familiar names i started to think it would be fun to join in some of the discussions here.
But my enthusiasm didn't last long after i started to scan some of the threads....... wow, you guys really don't like this game much.
I've never seen so much discussion over a game that nobody likes and nobody plays.

That's the problem with any snapshot at any single point in time.

This was a great game before they ruined it.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

Personally, i like the game. And i still play it regularly.
I even like the changes they've made in the updates. I think the game is better now than it was a year ago. Which is why i was surprised to read all the negative comments here.
I agree that they push the store a bit much but i find it easy enough to ignore. Just because someone can buy something at the store that i don't have doesn't take away from my enjoyment in the least.

 

[Palantir]

You need to read ALL the threads to see how much I loved playing this game.
Come on, I have 4 maxed out characters and 4 others 40+ and a bunch of low levels. Does that tell you how much I enjoyed it "before..."
You'll start to see how the game slowly unraveled for me and others.

I've mentioned how good a game it is and where it still shines A+, but clearly it's not the same game that appeared with Shadows Of Angmar thru Moria. And honestly I think only the original and early players can see how "high" it was and where it sits now.

I'd rather play it as it is than ever go back to WoW.

BTW- Glad you stopped by, it's just too bad when.

 

[Redwolf]

I agree that they push the store a bit much but i find it easy enough to ignore. Just because someone can buy something at the store that i don't have doesn't take away from my enjoyment in the least.

I stopped playing when they added all this new stuff and made practically nothing available to VIP users (not counting "scenarios"). For example all the extra storage, all the extra outfits, all the new LI related items they have in the store only. I don't have that much of a problem with them being store-only for f2p and premium players, but as a VIP I would have expected to get at least some of that. My VIP money over the years payed to develop these things.

The VIP money covered a smaller and smaller percentage of the game and that is not what should happen in a MMORPG. You finance the development and you get the results.

So I canceled my VIP subscription but guess what - now I lack everything I need to play that is included in VIP and that I didn't buy for cash in the past. If I had invested my VIP money in store stuff I would be in better shape, but at the time I didn't know how bad Turbine would treat VIPs.

I would even pay more for a better VIP subscription but right now it's just a waste of money.

ETA: and yes, a 20% in-combat speedup isn't OK. Fellowship wipeout and you can run, if you pay real-world cash? Sorry that's not the game I want to play.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

I stopped playing when they added all this new stuff and made practically nothing available to VIP users (not counting "scenarios"). For example all the extra storage, all the extra outfits, all the new LI related items they have in the store only. I don't have that much of a problem with them being store-only for f2p and premium players, but as a VIP I would have expected to get at least some of that. My VIP money over the years payed to develop these things.

The VIP money covered a smaller and smaller percentage of the game and that is not what should happen in a MMORPG. You finance the development and you get the results.

So I canceled my VIP subscription but guess what - now I lack everything I need to play that is included in VIP and that I didn't buy for cash in the past. If I had invested my VIP money in store stuff I would be in better shape, but at the time I didn't know how bad Turbine would treat VIPs.

I would even pay more for a better VIP subscription but right now it's just a waste of money.

ETA: and yes, a 20% in-combat speedup isn't OK. Fellowship wipeout and you can run, if you pay real-world cash? Sorry that's not the game I want to play.

I'm a monthly VIP player and I don't feel i was entitled to anything just by virtue of being a VIP. I mean, VIP's should get more than free and premium players and they do get more. I've used the points on storage and few other things that i would've otherwise had to pay for.
For anyone that was willing to pay for a VIP subscription prior to the Store's existence, i just don't see how they're getting 'less' now. I mean, i could be wrong, but nothing was taken away?
I certainly don't feel that i'm missing out on something by not having a 20% IC speed boost. For anyone that is willing to spend on money on that crap, more power to them. What's wrong with them having the option? It doesn't change my game.

 

[Redwolf]

I'm a monthly VIP player and I don't feel i was entitled to anything just by virtue of being a VIP. I mean, VIP's should get more than free and premium players and they do get more. I've used the points on storage and few other things that i would've otherwise had to pay for.
For anyone that was willing to pay for a VIP subscription prior to the Store's existence, i just don't see how they're getting 'less' now. I mean, i could be wrong, but nothing was taken away?
I certainly don't feel that i'm missing out on something by not having a 20% IC speed boost. For anyone that is willing to spend on money on that crap, more power to them. What's wrong with them having the option? It doesn't change my game.

It changes my game if people I might want to gang up with have the option between me with old-school "stand, fight and maybe die" and "I have rez scrolls, I have run-out-of-wipeout scrolls, I have überpotions and all payed for with moma's credit card".

Just not having something take away is not the same thing that we used to have. Before f2p your monthly subscription money got you new stuff that was developed with your VIP money. Now, I don't have a problem with getting only a part of the new stuff. I used to pay and happily pay for real expansions. But getting nothing? No. When they offer three new wardrobe slots I want one. If they make taking apart LI items a store-only thing my VIP money should get me a free sample of whatever it is per month (fine if it expires if I don't use it).

And as I said, I would even pay more for a better VIP subscription. But you see the very reason I never went premium is that the store is just too slow and complicated and I don't want to spend my gaming time figuring out how the heck to assemble all the pieces I need. And now it's too late to switch from VIP to premium because I have made a decision in summer 2010 that premium is too complicated and payed 12 months worth of VIP on multiple subscriptions, and now I cannot redirect the money towards buying premium equipment. And premium never gets you some VIP features, and the set of features changes all the time.

So in a way there is no investment safety. They invalidated my investment in my VIP money and there is no guarantee that if I now chose to invest in premium that this isn't invalidated next year. All it takes is make some thing I want VIP only and then out the window goes all the premium money I spend, starting from quest packs.

%%

And of course the very censoring that we discuss here puts a dent in the play fun, too, as do the broken forum, the layers, the server lines and all the other things that were just forced down out throats with no dialog and not even recognizing suggestions about how to do it with less impact.

Did they even fix the server lines problems in the moors yet?

 

[BlitzCanuck]

It changes my game if people I might want to gang up with have the option between me with old-school "stand, fight and maybe die" and "I have rez scrolls, I have run-out-of-wipeout scrolls, I have überpotions and all payed for with moma's credit card".

I've seen this argument before and i think it's, quite frankly, invalid.
I've joined a lot of PUG's, even prior to gaining level cap, and thus without the best equipment, weapons, stats, etc.......and i've never been passed over in favour of someone else.
It's always been a first come, first serve basis and i don't see that changing. I'm not on the most populous server but far from the least populous. I just don't think there are enough people waiting to do instances to give PUG's the luxury of being that fussy.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

And of course the very censoring that we discuss here puts a dent in the play fun, too, as do the broken forum, the layers, the server lines and all the other things that were just forced down out throats with no dialog and not even recognizing suggestions about how to do it with less impact.

I don't understand how censoring puts a dent in the play fun. It is possible to play and enjoy the game without even using the forums. Having said that, I've used the search function many times and was able to get the relevant info without too much trouble. If they're "broken" i never noticed.
And i'm not sure what you are referring to when you talk about layers and server lines, that how much impact they have had.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

Just not having something take away is not the same thing that we used to have. Before f2p your monthly subscription money got you new stuff that was developed with your VIP money. Now, I don't have a problem with getting only a part of the new stuff. I used to pay and happily pay for real expansions. But getting nothing? No. When they offer three new wardrobe slots I want one. If they make taking apart LI items a store-only thing my VIP money should get me a free sample of whatever it is per month (fine if it expires if I don't use it).

And as I said, I would even pay more for a better VIP subscription. But you see the very reason I never went premium is that the store is just too slow and complicated and I don't want to spend my gaming time figuring out how the heck to assemble all the pieces I need. And now it's too late to switch from VIP to premium because I have made a decision in summer 2010 that premium is too complicated and payed 12 months worth of VIP on multiple subscriptions, and now I cannot redirect the money towards buying premium equipment. And premium never gets you some VIP features, and the set of features changes all the time.

Maybe i haven't been playing long enough but i don't recall getting any "new stuff that was developed with (my) VIP money".
Since f2p, i have been able to get "new stuff" with the turbine points i've received as a VIP, stuff that i would've had to pay for with real money prior to f2p.
Anyway, i'm not arguing with you. You obviously feel that it's not a good value and have stated your reasons. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Palantir]

One of the kickers is the development of items that you can buy (Store only items) that are better than what you can get "in-game." Which the developers swore would never happen.

This is leading to the development of content that leans to the players who use the store only items. The faster "heal potions" = more damage inflicted by mobs quicker, in-combat speed boost will in fact lead to "faster mobs" as a basic example.

Players who do not buy these items will be at a disadvantage in playing the game.

One change I've seen is a shift to a new combat/raid mentality of the developers & their "one way only to "win" in them. The game was developed (initially) so players could form a "random" Fellowship of various classes and defeat the enemy based on who happened to be in the Fellowship; or there were various ways to defeat the enemy and "win." The stated new way is, "you fight & die as many times as required until you find out the right group of players/classes AND the exact one way to win.

This is a long way from the fun, grab a fellowship and play and devise a way to win to a one way to win & one Fellowship setup to do it.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

To me, it doesn't matter what the developers state, or say, or imply, or promise.
I don't need to read anything to enjoy playing the game. I can't stand Battlefront staff and i sometimes loathe the things they say, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of their games.
Same with Lotro.

This is a long way from the fun, grab a fellowship and play and devise a way to win...

and yet that is what i do......exactly what i do.......me and my kinnies.
I dunno...i'm starting to get the sense that you guys would enjoy the game more if you'd stop reading the forums.

 

[Redwolf]

I don't think it is so much the current state of the game that annoys me but the curve, delta, differential.

There is an *ongoing* decline and we don't know where it stops. In fact it is accelerating. Just in the last months we have seen an increasing rate of forcing down changes player's throats, an increasing rate of forum censoring, including unmarked editing of user's posts (namely subject changing). They now completely ignore the original "no combat advantages for real-world-money", and the total loss of any pretense to the opposite has been lost just recently, namely in update2 or whatever they called it. And it, again, goes along with just recently deleting old evidence and faking history.

Before I make any more investments in this game I want to at least see it stop at some level of discomfort, so that I can weight pros and cons.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

One of the kickers is the development of items that you can buy (Store only items) that are better than what you can get "in-game." Which the developers swore would never happen.

This is leading to the development of content that leans to the players who use the store only items. The faster "heal potions" = more damage inflicted by mobs quicker, in-combat speed boost will in fact lead to "faster mobs" as a basic example.

Players who do not buy these items will be at a disadvantage in playing the game.

Which content specifically? Because i've yet to try anything that couldn't be defeated without using any buffs at all, much less "store only items".
So i don't understand how it is that i'm at any disadvantage by not buying these items.

 

[Ganzor]

...stuff that i would've had to pay for with real money prior to f2p.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen anything expansion worthy since F2P began. What I've seen is a lot of mostly minor stuff we've been asking for for years but were told it wasn't in the tech or would be very hard to do. They sure got it into F2P quickly. Let's not even talk about the year with virtually no content while turbine denied the game would ever go free to play.

Which content specifically? Because i've yet to try anything that couldn't be defeated without using any buffs at all, much less "store only items".
So i don't understand how it is that i'm at any disadvantage by not buying these items.

You lack vision. If the advantage items in the store become widespread enough in use (are they already)?, Turbine will be forced to balance new content around the advantage or risk player burnout from blowing through content too fast. That is why it's so important to discourage them from doing it. Eventually, you'll get the store stuff or you'll have a very hard time doing content.

 

[BlitzCanuck]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen anything expansion worthy since F2P began. What I've seen is a lot of mostly minor stuff we've been asking for for years but were told it wasn't in the tech or would be very hard to do. They sure got it into F2P quickly. Let's not even talk about the year with virtually no content while turbine denied the game would ever go free to play.

I'm not sure what you quoted from me has to do with this comment of yours about being expansion worthy. I was talking about buying things from the store with turbine points that i didn't have to pay for in contrast to f2p and premium players that do have to pay. They don't get free turbine points like VIP's do.
As for what turbine said....you're right, lets not talk about it.

You lack vision. If the advantage items in the store become widespread enough in use (are they already)?, Turbine will be forced to balance new content around the advantage or risk player burnout from blowing through content too fast. That is why it's so important to discourage them from doing it. Eventually, you'll get the store stuff or you'll have a very hard time doing content.

Ha! One man's vision is another man's paranoid delusions.

I have to wonder if you actually play the game. Maybe we should talk about specific items because i don't see widespread use of anything that is having such an impact that it is all the rage, so to speak. Surely if such a thing were necessary or even greatly desired, i would've heard about it by now, given the fact that i'm playing nearly every day and i'm not completely obtuse.
The fact is, most instances in the game probably aren't challenging enough. There are only a couple that aren't defeated by groups the vast majority of the attempts. And even then, the standard crafted buffs are usually enough to get them over the hump so to speak. I think you underestimate players in this game; they might need the buffs the first time through an instance, but then they learn and adapt and overcome. It's simply not an issue.

 

[Palantir]

Which content specifically? Because i've yet to try anything that couldn't be defeated without using any buffs at all, much less "store only items". So i don't understand how it is that i'm at any disadvantage by not buying these items.

You don't see an advantage to players with Healing potions that they can pop every 20 seconds (?) to those "in-game" that have a 1 minute cooldown? Or players that can buy extra legacy slots for their LI's from the store that you can not get by playing the game? Or the Store only mount touted as being the "fastest in the game." (I'll have to check that % speed if I ever get into the store.) Those certainly are an advantage over non-store buyers.

No one is saying (yet) that non-store buyers can't do the content, but using Store items that are designed to help win in the game are a clear advantage. I've yet to spend 1 TP and still played the game a lot and advanced all my alts as I wanted. But, how much "extra" playing was I forced to do compared to the "store buyers?"

I'm a LotR nut and I ignored a lot of content for the sake of gameplay (which was a must to make a game) but when my game play suffers because my Lifetime Accounts (3) aren't good enough for them & they say "too bad pay up" to stay even with F2P'ers & buy store junk something has to give. Most of us tried hard to ignore the in-your-face Turbine Store tactics and sideways direction as long as we could but man, they don't let up with the Store on any screen in the game.

As Ganzor said, just look at the big picture of whats happened in the past & what steps they are taking now to see what has us as disgruntled players.
{Goats in Moria was bad but allowing them to be ridden outside!!!!!}

I'm still posting here because I really want to like the game as much as I used to and still hope something positive will happen to change the direction of the game.

I know I've played the game... since '07.