Landing craft passengers unloading into an enemy occupied hex

[Sparafucil3]

A8.312 TPBF: An armed, unbroken Infantry DEFENDER not in Melee must after all Residual-FP/minefield/OBA attacks then immediately attack any Infantry/Cavalry MMC unit that enters its Location during the MPh whether it uses Defensive First Fire, Subsequent First Fire, or FPF ...

When the unit entered the DEFENDER's Location, it entered as PRC. It is not subject to Mandatory TPBF. During the phase, it unloads/bailsout/somehow becomes Infantry. At this point, it is Infantry in the Defender's Location but it didn't enter as Infantry so it doesn't trigger A8.312 mandatory fire. Now, lets look elsewhere to confirm this.

A4.14 ENEMY UNITS: Infantry may not move into the same Location containing an unconcealed enemy unit during the MPh [EXC: Berserk (15.43), Human Wave (25.23), Disrupted (19.12), Unarmed (20.54), and Infantry OVR (4.15)], but may do so during the APh. However, PRC (7.211, D6.5) and charging Cavalry (13.61) can dismount in such a hex during the MPh.

Infantry are precluded from ENTERING an enemy Location unless they meet specific criteria. The PRC--if they were "Infantry" when entering--wouldn't be allowed in the Location unless they met one of these specific criteria. So when unloading, PRC already in the Location become Infantry. They don't enter, we just change what we call them. As such, in the act changing name from "PRC" to "Infantry", they don't "Enter" the Location, so they don't trigger mandatory fire. They would inflict Target Selection limits. Hope this helps. -- jim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Surely other people have used that sleaze? How do they play it?

I myself have never seen it played as if A8.312 kicks in while a PRC is unloading/bailing-out/etc. when already in the Location.

I seem to recall another threas about minefield attacks vs such units, and there was one rule that I think says that units Bailing Out in an A-P minefield are treated as if entering the hex, or something like that.

 

[Sparafucil3]

The reason I asked about riders is I was looking for new sleaze. My opponent has final fired, a tank comes along and drives in, twists its turret, the infantry bail out and it is FPF for my opponent - even if my guys have failed the bailing out MC and are DM'd.

To me logically (when was ASL ever logical ) the riders have entered the location when they came in with the tank, not when bailing out. However I can see that they become infantry upon bailing out and that might change things.

Surely other people have used that sleaze? How do they play it?

Ahhhhh, I call this the Fortenberry (@Fort). I am sure he is not the first to do it but he was the first to do it to me. They were Riders when they entered. They were not Infantry when they entered. Regardless of passing or failing the NMC on bailout, they will enforce Target Selection Limits. It will not compel the DEFENDER to fire in accordance with A8.312. They DEFENDER may chose to fire depending on their options. It will be FFNAM if Bailing out so if you can eliminate the unit through a KIA, your opponent will have to noodle through something else. -- jim

 

[Vinnie]

It can get very risky as you fire on them as they enter, leaving residual and then if they bail out, they take that residual attack.
Combine that with the inability for the bailed out riders to attack, and it is a very high risk strategy.

"ny Rider which Bails Out must take a NMC, be placed beneath the AFV in the AFV's current Location, is unable to move or fire further during that phase, and if unbroken is marked with either a Prep Fire or Final Fire counter as appropriate."

 

[Honosbinda]

When the unit entered the DEFENDER's Location, it entered as PRC. It is not subject to Mandatory TPBF. During the phase, it unloads/bailsout/somehow becomes Infantry. At this point, it is Infantry in the Defender's Location but it didn't enter as Infantry so it doesn't trigger A8.312 mandatory fire. Now, lets look elsewhere to confirm this.


Infantry are precluded from ENTERING an enemy Location unless they meet specific criteria. The PRC--if they were "Infantry" when entering--wouldn't be allowed in the Location unless they met one of these specific criteria. So when unloading, PRC already in the Location become Infantry. They don't enter, we just change what we call them. As such, in the act changing name from "PRC" to "Infantry", they don't "Enter" the Location, so they don't trigger mandatory fire. They would inflict Target Selection limits. Hope this helps. -- jim

Agree. A4.14 confirms that PRC dismount and precludes that infantry can enter except for Berserk (15.43), Human Wave (25.23), Disrupted (19.12), Unarmed (20.54). Hence, infantry cannot enter by unloading. It's a change of status for PRC, Vinnie was right.

So Joe, why don't you explain why you would have chosen not to TBPF? Waiting for other units to unload in the location as well so you could blast them, too?

Of course it's been determine they unloaded outside of the hex anyway.

 

[Sparafucil3]

I don't think it is hazardous movement, merely non assault.

I corrected my mistake already. Thanks. -- jim

 

[JoeArthur]

So Joe, why don't you explain why you would have chosen not to TBPF? Waiting for other units to unload in the location as well so you could blast them, too?

Waiting for a bigger stack to blast - rather than doing it one at a time

 

[Eagle4ty]

D6.5 states:

"PRC may unload or Bail Out in an enemy-occupied hex with no special rules or consequences; place a CC counter to show they are in melee"

Joe
D6.5 does NOT state that at all. Indeed it is exactly opposite an that it states,"...place a CC counter to show they are not held in Melee."

 

[JoeArthur]

Joe
D6.5 does NOT state that at all. Indeed it is exactly opposite an that it states,"...place a CC counter to show they are not held in Melee."

Good catch - thank you.