Kreta

[Brian W]

I have no interest in the subject matter, so won't be buying, but all my maps are laminated anyway so a thin map would probably not upset me in the least. I understand why others would be upset, however.

I have actually come to the point that I try not to pre-order anything until it is out and seems relatively "right". VotG, which I was unsure if I was going to buy, was ordered through Scott Blanton.

 

[paulkenny]

FWIW I was a fence sitter on this product but after reading this thread count me in for a purchase.

Any small TPP has to feel for what HOB is going through right now. They are not CH in this manner, Operation Compass anyone?

 

[wrongway149]

I think (again this is my very personal view) we at HOB did our best to push the envelope, I think we created some of the best pieces of ASL you can find. But it just wasn't enough (for whatever reason).
For a while it was worth the stress, the frustration, but also the fun.
For me, this is no longer the case.
Cheers
Klaus

Yeah, I know the feeling, Klaus. I try really hard to play competetive ASL. It just doesn't work out no matter what.


I remember having this discussion with Mark Nixon way back when he was still writing articles fore everyone else, and I was beginning to design scenarios myself. I thought maybe we could do our own local rag (Bill Sisler and Rick Troha were still doing scenarios back then, too-- so we had a creative team in place) He provided some good advice when he suggested that the articles and designing scenarios is the fun part, and the production might be fun at first but ultimatley becomes too much like work.
(I wish his tips on ASL rules and tactics were as helpful):whist:


ya just can't be a control freak about your submissions. Even two scenarios like the Shellshocked series seem like more work to layout really nice (Thanks again to Dave Childs, and Bret for the web hosting -which looks labor intensive in itself.) than they were to create.

So as long as there are other people to work the back end, I'll continue to contribute on the creative side.

 

[fjmaniega]

So, Home sick today and the ups man just brought another 4 boxes of Kretas, Do I ship them or wait a few weeks until some resolution of the map (if any) is done?

Please, ship mine.

 

[Portal]

Guys, I'll be very interested in buying HOB stuff once this production QC issue works itself out.

 

[paulkenny]

Yeah, I know the feeling, Klaus. I try really hard to play competetive ASL. It just doesn't work out no matter what.


I remember having this discussion with Mark Nixon way back when he was still writing articles fore everyone else, and I was beginning to design scenarios myself. I thought maybe we could do our own local rag (Bill Sisler and Rick Troha were still doing scenarios back then, too-- so we had a craeative team in place) He provided some good advice when he suggested that the articles and designing scenarios is the fun part, and the prodcution might be fun at first but ultimatley becomes too much like work.
(I wish his tips on ASL rules and tactics were as helpful):whist:


ya just can't be a control freak about you submissions. Even two scenarios like the Shellshocked series seem like more work to layout really nice (Thanks again to Dave Childs, and Bret for the web hosting -which looks labor intensive in itself.) than they were to create.

So as long as there are other people to work the back end, I'll continue to contribute on the creative side.

for me, when the juices are flowing, the layout is quite fun, cutting and pasting and typing and finding pictures etc etc all enjoyed. The onerous part for me is the printing and fullfillment work (Glennbo that means stuffing envelopes!), especially on big orders to the mail order companies.

 

[rdw5150]

"I'm not even playing ASL any longer, and I'm not doing anything for ASL any longer - again, I'm not blaming anyone - it is the situation itself - and for me it is simply not worth the hassle - for me (personally) ASL is dead *period*"

Hello!

This is really to bad...... and I am sorry to hear it, hopefully you will come back to it....

I know for me, I would not want to make my gaming hobby into a business as then its no longer just a hobby and you are not just playing a game, but worrying about layouts, proof readers, customer service, printers, etc. This makes it more like a job.

I have often wondered if producers of ASL materials sometimes suffer a different type of burnout than those of us that need a break from ASL from time to time.

I can only hope that you take ASL up again and remember why you loved the game itself and not the stress it appears to have become to you.

Peace

Roger

 

[dude163]

to the HOB guys, if you want to make some money fast, just reprint the packs that have the black SS counters in them!

 

[dude163]

SS-I - No Quarter, No Glory
SS-II - The Führer's Firemen

 

[arno_FR]

It is not about money...
They work a lot on these products, and there is so much problems on the back end. they don't do it for money, for the love of quality control, for the love of working with printers and with USPS.

Tired.

IMHO.

 

[Tuomo]

Hm. Bummer, Klaus, but I know how it can be. I hope we see you active again in the future.

If you ask me, Klaus is one of the top graphics people in the ASL world. We'll miss him.

 

[kcole4001]

It's really a shame that these issues are having such a negative effect on HoB.
Their handling of the whole affair is nothing but honest & forthright and should be commended.

All people who deal with printers also have to deal with setbacks.
The printer seems to never get things right the first time, and just can't be expected to grasp the small details that are important to their clients, which must seem very esoteric to them.
It's obviously very much more difficult for smaller operations to be able to implement a fix for such a problem.

I will most likely buy Kreta.
Not out of pity, or a show of support, but because I find the subject interesting & think the HoB product looks very nicely done.
The map only has to unfold once, then it will be laminated in my case.

Best wishes to all at HoB.

 

[william.stoppel]

Steve,
Go ahead and mail the Kreta's out. A thin map isn't the end of the world or a problem for me and probably most of the silent masses who lurk around here. It is what it is and if they don't want to buy it then they won't. I don't think this will affect current or future HoB sales.

Bill

 

[Ozzz]

To me it's not such a big issue to be screamed at. Though I've not received the module yet, from the pictures in some past posts it's quite likely to be a *TOUGH* task dealing with the printer if only the thickness of the map, which is not totally unfit for purpose, is in issue.

My answer to it is simple: just put up a pre-order for a more sturdy map like those Deluxe GMT maps and let the folks worry about whether to buy it or not. ASLers simply buy everything. Especially when it's not like a 100 bucks purchase decision. ASLers are not that price-sensitive, especially we have not had many choices since the demise of AH.

 

[SamB]

I'm not even playing ASL any longer, and I'm not doing anything for ASL any longer - again, I'm not blaming anyone - it is the situation itself - and for me it is simply not worth the hassle - for me (personally) ASL is dead *period*
​

Klaus. I'm very sorry to hear this. Take some time off. I hope sometime you'll be able to enjoy ASL again.

Those of you that are unhappy with HoB's quality can simply stop ordering from them. Or you can wait for each release to see for yourself what issues (if any) there are and make a case by case decision.

But the fact is that a small company can't afford to "eat" the cost of re printing something every time there is an issue. They simply can't.

What's more, someone acutally suggested that HoB should go out of business. Here are some guys who love ASL and are trying to create quality products. They have some problems with their printers and some of use are suggesting they should pack up their tent and go home?

Now, before you ask, I have never once suggested that Ray Tapio and CH! should close. What's more, HoB is trying very hard to resolve their problems. Can't you guys cut them some slack? (As an aside, my issues with CH! are that they didn't seem to WANT to produce good products, along with some ethical questions.)

I'm not saying you don't have a right to complain. You do. I sent a complaint to MMP about my VotG map. But with any of the companies that produce ASL material they are not getting rich. The smaller companies have no reserves to pay for reprints.

If you have a problem, contact them. Give them a chance to work out a solution. But let's not be piling on and kicking them while they are down. If you don't like the product or the quality, don't order it. But let's not attack their character or suggest they go away.

I have alot of respect for people who try to create products for ASL. It's not easy and a thousand things can go wrong. The only companies that I'm finished with are those that don't seem to care if they produce a good product. I don't include HoB in that group.

We don't have enough ASL players / producers as it is. Let's not drive any away.

 

[Pitman]

But the fact is that a small company can't afford to "eat" the cost of re printing something every time there is an issue. They simply can't.

Isn't this a straw man? Has someone suggested they should? I know I made it clear that I did not have that expectation myself, but would simply prefer that they fix a problem before it is released rather than after.

 

[paulkenny]

and if fixing a potential problem requires them to eat the cost of said printing?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

"Isn't this a straw man?"

That reminds me. Weren't we supposed to get one free with each post??

Somone owes me quite a few.

 

[Pitman]

and if fixing a potential problem requires them to eat the cost of said printing?

Why would it?

 

[arno_FR]

Isn't this a straw man? Has someone suggested they should? I know I made it clear that I did not have that expectation myself, but would simply prefer that they fix a problem before it is released rather than after.

What is a problem for you, may be not a problem for another. Even if you're right in your statement that the paper is not the good one, the best one.

I don't want to wait because you need a better paper. Kreta is totally playable right now.

I don't want to tackle a TPP for such a minor flaw. Yes, they've got several QC problems. So what... I seems to me that it is a good reason for you to overpower HoB. Their fault, their repetitive fault...
For the same facts, I just feel some compassion (comprehension) for a small company doing a lot. I don't care about perfection. They don't need to be overpowered, right now. They need our support.

... "cursed" said Klaus.