Korea: The Forgotten War...

boylermaker

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Oh boy, I think I gave myself about a "6" worth of excitement about Korea when last we were polled, but if the release of this module means we get to have fights over what names we're permitted to apply to the new rules, then dial me up to 11.
 

von Marwitz

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Or use Google Translate.
It has its uses. But it has its limitations, especially, when it comes to details and nuances of expression. I have put the following German paragraph through Google Translate and vice versa a couple of times. Even though I am not a native English speaker, I can sense that already the first run of the English translation will not sound entirely solid to you in itself. I can also state, that some nuances of my meaning in German is lost already as well as some refinement of expression.

Ich ziehe in Zweifel, daß die Leistung von Google Translate sich bei der Verwendung einer etwas gewählteren Ausdrucksweise mit der Beherrschung einer Fremdsprache an sich zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt messen kann, auch wenn sich diese im Verlaufe der vergangenen Jahre verbessert hat. Desweiteren kann Google Translate nicht die Nuancen vermitteln, die ein bestimmter Sprachgebrauch mit sich bringt, denn selbst eine präzise Übersetzung gibt nicht notwendigerweise den Bedeutungsinhalt wieder, für dessen korrekte Interpretation darüberhinaus auch Wissen um den kulturellen Kontext vonnöten ist.

I doubt that the performance of Google Translate is comparable to mastery of a foreign language in itself at the present time, even though it has improved over the past few years, using a more selective language. Furthermore, Google Translate can not convey the nuances that come with a particular usage of language, because even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the content of meaning, for its correct interpretation beyond knowledge of the cultural context is needed.

Ich bezweifle, dass die Leistung von Google Translate zum gegenwärtigen Zeitpunkt mit der Beherrschung einer Fremdsprache vergleichbar ist, obwohl sie sich in den letzten Jahren mit einer selektiveren Sprache verbessert hat. Darüber hinaus kann Google Translate die Nuancen, die mit einem bestimmten Sprachgebrauch einhergehen, nicht vermitteln, da selbst eine präzise Übersetzung nicht zwangsläufig den Sinngehalt widerspiegelt, da eine korrekte Interpretation jenseits der Kenntnis des kulturellen Kontextes erforderlich ist.

I doubt that the power of Google Translate at the present time is comparable to mastering a foreign language, even though it has improved in recent years with a more selective language. In addition, Google Translate can not convey the nuances associated with a particular usage, as even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the meaning of the meaning, since correct interpretation beyond the knowledge of the cultural context is required.

Ich bezweifle, dass die Macht von Google Translate zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt mit dem Erlernen einer Fremdsprache vergleichbar ist, obwohl es sich in den letzten Jahren mit einer selektiveren Sprache verbessert hat. Darüber hinaus kann Google Translate die Nuancen, die mit einer bestimmten Verwendung verbunden sind, nicht vermitteln, da selbst eine präzise Übersetzung nicht notwendigerweise die Bedeutung der Bedeutung widerspiegelt, da eine korrekte Interpretation über die Kenntnis des kulturellen Kontextes hinaus erforderlich ist.

I doubt that the power of Google Translate at the moment is comparable to learning a foreign language, even though it has improved in recent years with a more selective language. In addition, Google Translate can not convey the nuances associated with a particular use, as even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the meaning of the meaning, as it requires proper interpretation beyond the knowledge of the cultural context.

von Marwitz
 

Paul M. Weir

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Still, the above sample seems to be fairly good. I found past translations of Russian to be somewhat cryptic when looking up Russian armour sites. In particular "turret" usually came out as "tower", maybe Russian uses the same word for both, just as once in English a turret was a synonym for tower in the context of a castle, only later having the connotation of a shielded gun enclosure. Indeed the earliest ship turrets were simple cylinders like in the USCW Monitor, thus, I suspect, inspiring the use of the word "turret". There were occasional Russian words that were only transliterated from Cyrillic to Roman script, but that should improve over time. However despite that I was able to get the gist of the important information.
 

von Marwitz

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Still, the above sample seems to be fairly good.
It is quite good. In fact, never having used Google Translate before, I was surprised.

Nevertheless, see the below example to illustrate my point. It might be a bit hard on Google Translate to challenge it with Shakespeare. If not familiar with the context and historical use of the language even in the original, you will only understand roughly two thirds of it. Translated once to German and back again, nothing is left of the art how Shakespeare was able to use language.

First Witch:
When shall we three meet again
In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch:
When the hurlyburly's done,
When the battle's lost and won.
Third Witch:
That will be ere the set of sun.
First Witch:
Where the place?
Second Witch:
Upon the heath.
Third Witch:
There to meet with Macbeth.
First Witch:
I come, graymalkin!
Second Witch:
Paddock calls.
Third Witch:
Anon!
ALL:
Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.

(Macbeth Act I, Scene 1)

Erste Hexe:
Wann werden wir uns wieder treffen?
In Donner, Blitz oder im Regen?
Zweite Hexe:
Wenn der Hurlyburly erledigt ist,
Wenn die Schlacht verloren ist und gewonnen hat.
Dritte Hexe:
Das wird die Sonne sein.
Erste Hexe:
Wo ist der Ort?
Zweite Hexe:
Auf der Heide.
Dritte Hexe:
Um sich mit Macbeth zu treffen.
Erste Hexe:
Ich komme, Graymalkin!
Zweite Hexe:
Paddock ruft.
Dritte Hexe:
Anon!
ALL:
Fair ist faul, und Foul ist fair:
Schwebe durch den Nebel und die schmutzige Luft.

First Witch:
When will we meet again?
In thunder, lightning or in the rain?
Second Witch:
When the Hurlyburly is done,
If the battle is lost and won.
Third Witch:
That will be the sun.
First Witch:
Where is the place?
Second Witch:
On the heath.
Third Witch:
To meet with Macbeth.
First Witch:
I'm coming, Graymalkin!
Second Witch:
Paddock calls.
Third Witch:
Anon!
ALL:
Fair is lazy and foul is fair:
Float through the fog and the dirty air.

All right. I'll quit spamming here now. Promised.

von Marwitz
 

jrv

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Still, the above sample seems to be fairly good. I found past translations of Russian to be somewhat cryptic when looking up Russian armour sites. In particular "turret" usually came out as "tower", maybe Russian uses the same word for both, just as once in English a turret was a synonym for tower in the context of a castle, only later having the connotation of a shielded gun enclosure. Indeed the earliest ship turrets were simple cylinders like in the USCW Monitor, thus, I suspect, inspiring the use of the word "turret". There were occasional Russian words that were only transliterated from Cyrillic to Roman script, but that should improve over time. However despite that I was able to get the gist of the important information.
I believe in German the word for turret is the same, "turm."

JR
 

Justiciar

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Back to Korea.... I've really enjoyed proofing the materials for Korean War ASL. I'm looking forward to pushing some counters around once it's in our hands. It's cost me a small bundle as I couldn't help myself and ordered half a dozen more books on the conflict! :D
Yes, well join the club. ;)
 

prekarius

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In particular "turret" usually came out as "tower", maybe Russian uses the same word for both
Might be. Not that it is related but in Finnish both turret and tower are translated as "torni" which Google translates as a first option to tower. Turret is listed in the alternatives though.
 

Justiciar

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Might be. Not that it is related but in Finnish both turret and tower are translated as "torni" which Google translates as a first option to tower. Turret is listed in the alternatives though.
Just out of idle curiosity if you went to the Finnish equivalent of the "Oxford English Dictionary" (the proper multi-volume set), and looked up 'torni' and then looked to its etymology, is the word an imported word? My guess is yes.