Korea: The Forgotten War...

Discussion in 'Multi-Man Publishing' started by burniefox, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. GeorgeBates

    GeorgeBates Active Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    Live at Budokan
    Damn, now I'll need to add a space for buglers in the tray next to my piper counters...
     
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  2. Justiciar

    Justiciar Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Within Range
    The former are not counters. They are abstract in nature by their rule. So you won't need to make space. ;)
     
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  3. GeorgeBates

    GeorgeBates Active Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    Live at Budokan
    So I don't have to be brassed off?
     
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  4. boylermaker

    boylermaker Active Member

    119
    Jan 22, 2012
    Massachusetts
    Oh boy, I think I gave myself about a "6" worth of excitement about Korea when last we were polled, but if the release of this module means we get to have fights over what names we're permitted to apply to the new rules, then dial me up to 11.
     
  5. Justiciar

    Justiciar Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Within Range
    Another high note. ;)
     
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  6. David Reinking

    David Reinking Active Member Silver Supporting Member

    Aug 16, 2004
    Leander, TX
    There you go again...tooting your own horn.
     
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  7. Mr Incredible

    Mr Incredible Rod loves red undies

    Oct 26, 2004
    Perth, Australia
    War Dogs, Buglers, Pipers, Flying Tanks.

    The missed opportunities of ASL.

    It could of been such a great game.
     
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  8. Helmseye

    Helmseye Loser Gold Supporting Member

    798
    Feb 9, 2012
    twickenham
    in fairness that was also true of the war museum in Vienna, but then I was in the SS section...
     
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  9. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    And so what we learn is:

    If you want to have a least the chance of getting to the bottom of things in countries abroad, you are very well advised to study their languages.

    von Marwitz
     
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  10. echack

    echack Active Member

    327
    Feb 21, 2007
    Houston, Tx

    Or use Google Translate.
     
  11. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    It has its uses. But it has its limitations, especially, when it comes to details and nuances of expression. I have put the following German paragraph through Google Translate and vice versa a couple of times. Even though I am not a native English speaker, I can sense that already the first run of the English translation will not sound entirely solid to you in itself. I can also state, that some nuances of my meaning in German is lost already as well as some refinement of expression.

    Ich ziehe in Zweifel, daß die Leistung von Google Translate sich bei der Verwendung einer etwas gewählteren Ausdrucksweise mit der Beherrschung einer Fremdsprache an sich zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt messen kann, auch wenn sich diese im Verlaufe der vergangenen Jahre verbessert hat. Desweiteren kann Google Translate nicht die Nuancen vermitteln, die ein bestimmter Sprachgebrauch mit sich bringt, denn selbst eine präzise Übersetzung gibt nicht notwendigerweise den Bedeutungsinhalt wieder, für dessen korrekte Interpretation darüberhinaus auch Wissen um den kulturellen Kontext vonnöten ist.

    I doubt that the performance of Google Translate is comparable to mastery of a foreign language in itself at the present time, even though it has improved over the past few years, using a more selective language. Furthermore, Google Translate can not convey the nuances that come with a particular usage of language, because even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the content of meaning, for its correct interpretation beyond knowledge of the cultural context is needed.

    Ich bezweifle, dass die Leistung von Google Translate zum gegenwärtigen Zeitpunkt mit der Beherrschung einer Fremdsprache vergleichbar ist, obwohl sie sich in den letzten Jahren mit einer selektiveren Sprache verbessert hat. Darüber hinaus kann Google Translate die Nuancen, die mit einem bestimmten Sprachgebrauch einhergehen, nicht vermitteln, da selbst eine präzise Übersetzung nicht zwangsläufig den Sinngehalt widerspiegelt, da eine korrekte Interpretation jenseits der Kenntnis des kulturellen Kontextes erforderlich ist.

    I doubt that the power of Google Translate at the present time is comparable to mastering a foreign language, even though it has improved in recent years with a more selective language. In addition, Google Translate can not convey the nuances associated with a particular usage, as even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the meaning of the meaning, since correct interpretation beyond the knowledge of the cultural context is required.

    Ich bezweifle, dass die Macht von Google Translate zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt mit dem Erlernen einer Fremdsprache vergleichbar ist, obwohl es sich in den letzten Jahren mit einer selektiveren Sprache verbessert hat. Darüber hinaus kann Google Translate die Nuancen, die mit einer bestimmten Verwendung verbunden sind, nicht vermitteln, da selbst eine präzise Übersetzung nicht notwendigerweise die Bedeutung der Bedeutung widerspiegelt, da eine korrekte Interpretation über die Kenntnis des kulturellen Kontextes hinaus erforderlich ist.

    I doubt that the power of Google Translate at the moment is comparable to learning a foreign language, even though it has improved in recent years with a more selective language. In addition, Google Translate can not convey the nuances associated with a particular use, as even a precise translation does not necessarily reflect the meaning of the meaning, as it requires proper interpretation beyond the knowledge of the cultural context.

    von Marwitz
     
  12. Paul M. Weir

    Paul M. Weir Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2004
    Dublin
    Still, the above sample seems to be fairly good. I found past translations of Russian to be somewhat cryptic when looking up Russian armour sites. In particular "turret" usually came out as "tower", maybe Russian uses the same word for both, just as once in English a turret was a synonym for tower in the context of a castle, only later having the connotation of a shielded gun enclosure. Indeed the earliest ship turrets were simple cylinders like in the USCW Monitor, thus, I suspect, inspiring the use of the word "turret". There were occasional Russian words that were only transliterated from Cyrillic to Roman script, but that should improve over time. However despite that I was able to get the gist of the important information.
     
  13. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    It is quite good. In fact, never having used Google Translate before, I was surprised.

    Nevertheless, see the below example to illustrate my point. It might be a bit hard on Google Translate to challenge it with Shakespeare. If not familiar with the context and historical use of the language even in the original, you will only understand roughly two thirds of it. Translated once to German and back again, nothing is left of the art how Shakespeare was able to use language.

    First Witch:
    When shall we three meet again
    In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
    Second Witch:
    When the hurlyburly's done,
    When the battle's lost and won.
    Third Witch:
    That will be ere the set of sun.
    First Witch:
    Where the place?
    Second Witch:
    Upon the heath.
    Third Witch:
    There to meet with Macbeth.
    First Witch:
    I come, graymalkin!
    Second Witch:
    Paddock calls.
    Third Witch:
    Anon!
    ALL:
    Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
    Hover through the fog and filthy air.

    (Macbeth Act I, Scene 1)

    Erste Hexe:
    Wann werden wir uns wieder treffen?
    In Donner, Blitz oder im Regen?
    Zweite Hexe:
    Wenn der Hurlyburly erledigt ist,
    Wenn die Schlacht verloren ist und gewonnen hat.
    Dritte Hexe:
    Das wird die Sonne sein.
    Erste Hexe:
    Wo ist der Ort?
    Zweite Hexe:
    Auf der Heide.
    Dritte Hexe:
    Um sich mit Macbeth zu treffen.
    Erste Hexe:
    Ich komme, Graymalkin!
    Zweite Hexe:
    Paddock ruft.
    Dritte Hexe:
    Anon!
    ALL:
    Fair ist faul, und Foul ist fair:
    Schwebe durch den Nebel und die schmutzige Luft.

    First Witch:
    When will we meet again?
    In thunder, lightning or in the rain?
    Second Witch:
    When the Hurlyburly is done,
    If the battle is lost and won.
    Third Witch:
    That will be the sun.
    First Witch:
    Where is the place?
    Second Witch:
    On the heath.
    Third Witch:
    To meet with Macbeth.
    First Witch:
    I'm coming, Graymalkin!
    Second Witch:
    Paddock calls.
    Third Witch:
    Anon!
    ALL:
    Fair is lazy and foul is fair:
    Float through the fog and the dirty air.

    All right. I'll quit spamming here now. Promised.

    von Marwitz
     
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  14. GeorgeBates

    GeorgeBates Active Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    Live at Budokan
    Shakespeare is never spam. Griff an, MacDuff!
     
  15. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    I believe in German the word for turret is the same, "turm."

    JR
     
  16. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    That is correct.

    von Marwitz
     
  17. Nadir_E

    Nadir_E Active Member

    832
    Mar 3, 2004
    So. Cal.
    Back to Korea.... I've really enjoyed proofing the materials for Korean War ASL. I'm looking forward to pushing some counters around once it's in our hands. It's cost me a small bundle as I couldn't help myself and ordered half a dozen more books on the conflict! :D
     
  18. Justiciar

    Justiciar Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Within Range
    Yes, well join the club. ;)
     
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  19. prekarius

    prekarius New Member

    11
    Aug 24, 2017
    Might be. Not that it is related but in Finnish both turret and tower are translated as "torni" which Google translates as a first option to tower. Turret is listed in the alternatives though.
     
  20. Justiciar

    Justiciar Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Within Range
    Just out of idle curiosity if you went to the Finnish equivalent of the "Oxford English Dictionary" (the proper multi-volume set), and looked up 'torni' and then looked to its etymology, is the word an imported word? My guess is yes.
     

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