Korea Photo Series at Strategy Page`

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,008
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
That is a known mislabeled photo. (This has been reported to USMC Hist. Div. the bureaucracy to get the label changed is long, and won't change web pages captions like this anyways) Those are not the tanks of the USMC. The USMC had converted to M-26s by this date [EXC: the POA-CWS-H5s and the 105mm Dozer Shermans]. Those are the tanks of Capt. Drake, 31st Tank Company, of RCT-31, US Army. These tanks entered the USMC perimeter at Hagaru-ri and helped to defend it and {edit: some} made one foray vs. Hill 1221 to try and reach the Inlet where most of RCT-31 was cut off. There is another photo of the tanks, also mislabeled as USMC, when they came south again and staged in a light fallen snow at Koto-ri.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/32/a1/8d/32a18df92fa245f109ee2161d309467d.jpg
 
Last edited:

Tuomo

Keeper of the Funk
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Messages
4,291
Reaction score
4,646
Location
Rock Bottom
Country
llUnited States
I know I'm going to regret this, but what's the difference between an Army tank and a USMC tank?
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
619
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
I know I'm going to regret this, but what's the difference between an Army tank and a USMC tank?
The services, at times, used different tanks. In WWII, the USMC used the M4A2 medium until very late in the game (I believe that M4A3 were used at Iwo Jima and the USMC planned to transition to 105mm M4A3 for the planned invasion of Japan), while the US Army never(?) used the diesel variant. In Korea, I don't believe that the Army ever used the POA-CWS-H5, though they did (I believe) employ flame tanks.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,008
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Hmmm, I smell another misquote. The 5th Marines Of the "Fire Brigade" (ie August 1950) literally scrounged up their M-26 out of thin air in the USA to arrive at Pusan with them, even after the well deck of their transport flooded en route. (Lots of ammo thrown over board but heroic efforts to clean tanks systems so they would work and did so). At Inchon the Marines were up an running with M-26s. My source is Lt. Col. Kenneth Estes, USMC. Known to the KWASL design team as "Ken the Elder", Ken Katz (one of the designers) was Ken the Younger, the Ken's are buddies. He is the one who pointed out the misquote on the original pix to us.

(The "on the way to the objective area" is 'spin'... You can't swop out tanks at sea nor was their likely room to load both, if so why do so when the swop was coming. The "on the way" part is some form of spin about the swop out at the time of loading for Pusan...not Inchon.... that was a sort of on the fly. The DOD is just stretching the time line. Shock! horror! news at 10...)

The Shermans in the USMC moving up into Chosin are all only variants: 4x Dozers and 1 Porcupine (C2 tank MA (105) removed and faked with a painted telephone pole cut down (only 2x Porcupines made). (H5s did not enter the perimeter of Hagaru-ri, nor at Koto-ri.) These 5 formed a Provisional Tank Company and entered the perimeter of Hagaru-ri. All but one of the dozers dropped their blades at Koto-ri b/c the road was deemed too narrow to handle the extra width. One 105 version was lost moving out of Hagaru-ri up towards Yudamni, about 2-3 miles out from the perimeter, and was destroyed by USMC Corsairs so it would not fall into CPVA hands. The other tanks remained in the perimeter and the dozer one lead the breakout (was hit by CPVA bazooka/likely a captured one from the battle on East Hill) but struck the blade and no damage. The remaining 4x Sherman USMC made it out....as did most of Drake's tanks (see above).
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
619
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
Hmmm, I smell another misquote.
I just happened to stumble across this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pusan_Perimeter#/media/File:Tank_on_Crane.jpg

Captioned: "Marine Corps tanks - ready for the front lines - are swung aboard a barge at the Naval Supply Center by crane, for transhipment to our forces in the Pacific Far Eastern Command. Oakland, CA, 1950. Acme. (USIA) Exact Date Shot Unknown NARA FILE #: 306-PS-50-12226 WAR & CONFLICT BOOK #: 1403"

What's on the crane is actually the POA-CWS-H5. Pretty nifty photo, if you ask me.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,410
Reaction score
2,008
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
This is load out for upcoming Inchon. The Provisional Marine Brigade did not have H5s, they did have 2x dozer Shermans
I reckon the date is mid August.
 

djohannsen

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
762
Reaction score
619
Location
Within 800 meters.
Country
llUnited States
Already on the barge are a Sherman Dozer & an LVT.

JR
Yep, those are nice, too (but the flame tank, for me, is the centerpiece of the photo). A while back, I read Ravino and Carty's "Flame Dragons of the Korean War," I need to pull that one off the shelf again (e.g., don't remember when the H&S Co from 1st Tank Bn got to the Korean peninsula with the flame tanks; pretty sure that it was post-Inchon?).

P.S. Just saw Andy's post, so belay my last regarding "post-Inchon?"
 
Last edited:

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
I've never played a scenario with a flame-sherman in it. How many are there in Korea? Seems like a perfect place to toast the enemy--limited AT assets and no cave complexes to hide away in.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,752
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
no cave complexes to hide away in.
The Chinese were adept at tunneling and digging complex entrenchments - better, apparently, than the UN troops. They defended in depth, had skillful reverse slope positions, and were not shy about going to ground when it suited them, including underground.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,733
Reaction score
2,752
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Outpost_Vegas

Marines were apparently no slouches at utilizing caves and dugouts either...

The Chinese offensive began on the night of March 26 against outposts Vegas, Carson, and Reno, in conjunction with attacking nearby outposts Dagmar, Esther, Bunker, and Rudy (Kudy?).[2] At 19:00, small arms and machine gun fire erupted from the Chinese positions on the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines positions.[3]:17 This was followed by 15 minutes of mortar and artillery fire on the 5th Marines rear areas and supply routes along the MLR. At 19:10, over 3,500 Chinese soldiers from the 358th Regiment, 120th Division, 46th PVA attacked ouposts Carson, Reno, and Vegas. One of the Chinese companies engaged the Marines atop outpost Vegas. Marine artillery responded to the Chinese attacks by firing "protective boxes" and VT proximity fuses around the outposts and routes of attack.[4]:281 When VT was fired at Chinese soldiers who were very close to the Marine positions – as was often the case – the Marines would run into previously dug caves on the opposite slope of the hills. There they would wait until the overwhelming numbers of Chinese soldiers were pushed off the hill by the VT shells, and then the Marines would reemerge from the caves to man the defenses. Overwhelming Chinese numbers and supporting fire forced the Marines on Vegas to abandon the outer ring of less easily defended trenches.

At the same time during the evening of the 26th, Marine tanks and artillery had been positioned on the MLR to support an infantry raid to destroy Chinese bunkers scheduled for the next morning on the 27th, designated "Operation Clambake." It was pure chance that they were positioned there just as the Chinese launched an attack in the same front.
Nice references to VT shells which are also in FW.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,201
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
I've never played a scenario with a flame-sherman in it. How many are there in Korea? Seems like a perfect place to toast the enemy--limited AT assets and no cave complexes to hide away in.
In Forgotten War there is only one scenario I see with the POA-CWS-H5, "SIberia Diversion", but it has four of them.

JR
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,216
Reaction score
1,021
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
In Forgotten War there is only one scenario I see with the POA-CWS-H5, "SIberia Diversion", but it has four of them.
That's exciting.

I'm assuming no OT-34/85 scenarios. . .
 
Top