komsomolet

Michael R

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Is there a vehicle note for the Russian Komsomolet armoured gun tractor? I'm organizing my vehicles by note number, you see. :D

TIA
 

von Marwitz

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There is:

46.1. Komsomolet: This was the standard armored tractor, typically used to tow light AT guns into action, although efforts were made to keep the vehicle out of actual combat. It often towed a munitions trailer along with the gun. It could carry four people as passengers seated back-to-back in the rear. Many were captured in the summer of 1941 and pressed into service by the various Axis Minor armies. Following Romania’s August 1944 surrender, the Russians confiscated the remaining Romanian tractors.

† RF is 1.3 39-7/41; 1.5 for 8/41-9/44; 1.4 thereafter.

† Passengers are considered to occupy an unarmored vehicle except for Direct Fire attacks through the VCA which receive a +1 CE modifier, and they are always CE (as if in a Carrier; D6.84) even if the vehicle’s Inherent crew (if any) is BU as noted by “Pas: CE; +1 VCA” on the counter. This vehicle may retain any unpossessed SW aboard it.

† Optional BMG RF is 1.4.

† If armed, this vehicle has an Inherent crew and thus a CS# instead of a cs#, and if Stunned, may not regain CE status, may not fire a weapon, and is Recalled per D5.341; these are signified by “Stun=Recall & CE/FP NA” on the counter.

von Marwitz
 

Paul M. Weir

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The real vehicle could carry 6 not 4 passengers on its rear seats. I suspect that a RF of 1.4 for the BMG is a high low, all had the mounting, I would suggest 1.2. Given that ~4,400 were built, about 80% of the BT-7 production, I also suspect that the vehicles RF is a bit high also, maybe 1.0 or 1.1 for 39-7/41 adding .1 for each month afterwards until 1.5 is reached.

It was usually used to tow either the 45L AT gun or the 76* INF, in both cases an ammo limber was towed which in turn towed the gun.
 

Michael R

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There is:

46.1. Komsomolet: This was the standard armored tractor, typically used to tow light AT guns into action, although efforts were made to keep the vehicle out of actual combat. It often towed a munitions trailer along with the gun. It could carry four people as passengers seated back-to-back in the rear. Many were captured in the summer of 1941 and pressed into service by the various Axis Minor armies. Following Romania’s August 1944 surrender, the Russians confiscated the remaining Romanian tractors.

† RF is 1.3 39-7/41; 1.5 for 8/41-9/44; 1.4 thereafter.

† Passengers are considered to occupy an unarmored vehicle except for Direct Fire attacks through the VCA which receive a +1 CE modifier, and they are always CE (as if in a Carrier; D6.84) even if the vehicle’s Inherent crew (if any) is BU as noted by “Pas: CE; +1 VCA” on the counter. This vehicle may retain any unpossessed SW aboard it.

† Optional BMG RF is 1.4.

† If armed, this vehicle has an Inherent crew and thus a CS# instead of a cs#, and if Stunned, may not regain CE status, may not fire a weapon, and is Recalled per D5.341; these are signified by “Stun=Recall & CE/FP NA” on the counter.

von Marwitz
Thank you for that. My second edition Russian vehicle notes do not include the Komsomolet. Can someone tell me in which publication note 46.1 originated?
 

Michael R

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Sorry, missed that post. That explains why I have the counter and the note is not with the Russian notes. I think I will insert a copy with the Russian notes.
 

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Critical Hit also did the Komsomolets trackors and notes (CH59 "The first in our series of the Forgotten Counters of ASL) almost every number on the counter was different from MMP AoO counters.
Also came with two scenarios and unmounted counters.
The Komsomolets also appeared in CH's Jatkosota in Finnish colours (CH Note 23) All have 2 pt. BMGs
Dave
The real vehicle could carry 6 not 4 passengers on its rear seats. I suspect that a RF of 1.4 for the BMG is a high low, all had the mounting, I would suggest 1.2. Given that ~4,400 were built, about 80% of the BT-7 production, I also suspect that the vehicles RF is a bit high also, maybe 1.0 or 1.1 for 39-7/41 adding .1 for each month afterwards until 1.5 is reached.

It was usually used to tow either the 45L AT gun or the 76* INF, in both cases an ammo limber was towed which in turn towed the gun.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Critical Hit also did the Komsomolets trackors and notes (CH59 "The first in our series of the Forgotten Counters of ASL) almost every number on the counter was different from MMP AoO counters.
Also came with two scenarios and unmounted counters.
The Komsomolets also appeared in CH's Jatkosota in Finnish colours (CH Note 23) All have 2 pt. BMGs
Dave
There were 3 CH Finnish modules/versions, I don't have the 1st, but have the 2nd (FaW) and 3rd (FaI). The 2nd had too low a T (T12) number for starters, the 3rd, without digging it out, I think copied the official version at T8.

The only thing I would disagree with the MMP version are the RF for the vehicle itself and for the MG and the notes about 4 vs 6 passengers (both still equal 9PP to allow for SW/ammo). The counter values are fairly OK in my opinion.

I suppose a case could be made for upping the MP on the basis of a top speed of 50 k/h (30 m/h) and power to weight ratio of 14.3 HP/T (Panther 14.8 HP/T, T-34 m41 19.2 HP/T, all long tons), maybe 14 or 15 at a squeeze, but I can live with 12.
 

FMFCB

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Thanks for the in sight Paul. Can you give a referance source?

Thanks
Dave
 

Paul M. Weir

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Thanks for the in sight Paul. Can you give a referance source?

Thanks
Dave
The best is
Tyagatshi:Soviet Full-Tracked Artillery Tractors of World War 2 by Jochen Vollert (Tankograd Publishing) ISBN 3-936519-02-1 (dual English & German text)
Pages 89, 90

For quick references I have no shame in using Wiki (I have found Wiki is fairly reliable with regards to WW2 kit) and the book and Wiki match, except the book gives 7780 produced but only 4401 in service in Jan '41 which is the Wiki production figure.

Given that production started in late '37, that would mean 3 years production ('38, '39, '40) only gave maybe 5k with 2.5k done in the first 6 months of '41 after which the GaZ plant switched to light tanks. 7.8k is nearly equal to the total production of all BT-2/5/7 tanks! The book may well be absolutely correct, but I would be inclined to be cautious. Add an extra 1/6 and a buffer for vehicles not yet accepted by the army to the Jan '41 service numbers and are talking at least 5.2-5.5k. Still that is at about equal to BT-7 numbers (RF 1.0). Service numbers in the pre-war Soviet army included all that could move at least under a blue moon and when all the planets align.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I believe the RF# not only reflects how many of the vehicles were manufactured, but also how frequent their actual use was as well.
 

Paul M. Weir

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I believe the RF# not only reflects how many of the vehicles were manufactured, but also how frequent their actual use was as well.
I suspect that their use was under reported. Unlike tanks which usually would be seen in battalion (20-30) or company (5-10) strength, the T-20 would have been deployed in battery (4-6) or platoon (2) at most. They would have been encountered in handfuls all over front. As well they would have been classified by the Germans as tractors rather than fighting vehicles, so lumped into captured/destroyed transport. They were lost in great numbers in '41, only about 1.5k surviving in mid '42.
 

Paul M. Weir

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Four Americans, six Russians. ;)
:laugh:

My comment was the finest granularity nit picking. As I said before, it would not make the slighest difference to the counter PP, so completely trivial.

I am surprised that there is not a variant rule to allow US Army troops the option to add an extra squad of troops to be riders on any non very small (+1, 0, -1, -2 TH DRM) vehicle above its normal PP or rider limit, due to the reluctance of Americans to walk anywhere. :p
 

Kevin Kenneally

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Have you seen WW2 Soviet rations?
I read in the book, "German small unit actions on the Eastern Front" that many Russian soldiers learned to enjoy the "Grass of the Steppes and Pripyat Marshes" for food.

Or was that just "German/American" propaganda?

The Soviet Airborne in Bosnia really did not eat well in their camps either. They would visit Eagle Base and eat until they were full and then get "To Go" plates for their "Komrades"......

Yeah, life in the Russian Army will never be made into a Hollywood movie.....
 
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