KIndle allowed unless disallowed by scenario SSR?

Fiedler

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Well the heading is pretty selfexplaining. I feel that older scenarios suffers.

/S
 

Ole Boe

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Fiedler said:
Well the heading is pretty selfexplaining. I feel that older scenarios suffers.
Yes, many scenarios without such an SSR can be completely broken by the defender going the kindling route.

The best that I'm aware of is an Annual scenario (the name escapes me), where the VC requires the German attacker to "occupy" some buildings at game end - not control, but actually occupy.

The U.S. start in the building and has decent leaders, and therefore a very good chance of kindling the buildings in question...
 

Reepicheep

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Heh... this question comes from my game with Stefan. It is one of the few games I have actually thought of the idea of kindling as a defender, as normally I just forget.

I see kindling as a very valid option though in any scenario in which it is not prohibited, as that is the approach of the Tome. It is normally not really possible to tell whether or not the scenario designer intended it as an option or not if they say nothing. On the flip side, this is PTO and so I am having to deal with negative EC rolls which reduce the chance of the kindling tactic actually succeeding, or a blaze spreading to adjacent hexes.
 

Ole Boe

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Reepicheep said:
I see kindling as a very valid option though in any scenario in which it is not prohibited, as that is the approach of the Tome.
You're correct of course. The kindling rules were added to the ASLRB because they were supposed to be used.

The problem (as I see it) is that it was used so little that scenario designers/developers forgot to take it into account at all, and therefore forgot to add a "Kindling NA" SSR in those few scenarios that is completely broken by Kindling.

It is normally not really possible to tell whether or not the scenario designer intended it as an option or not if they say nothing. On the flip side, this is PTO and so I am having to deal with negative EC rolls which reduce the chance of the kindling tactic actually succeeding, or a blaze spreading to adjacent hexes.
I agree here as well. In a few scenarios it is clear that Kindling breaks the scenario, but in others, it is simply an interesting option.
 

Fiedler

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Hey

I am the one playing Reepicheap (*grin*) and I have no problems about the kindleing part. I was just a bit curious about the common opinion.

:jack:
 
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Gamey!

I think that kindling was added (back in the SL days) for some valid historical situations (E.g. 'smoking' out the paratroopers at Arnhem) or as a reasonable effect of some armaments (flamethrowers on wooden buildings).

This is a tactical game where the scenario defenders goal was likely 'repulse the enemy attack'. It seems gamey to me for defenders to burn a few buildings, run away and call it a victory.

I think there is a difference between gamey and reality argument. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Reepicheep

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IMO, scenarios should be built to withstand the full ruleset. If kindling is going to bust a scenario, the designer should specifically disallow it since kindling is a regular feature of the rules.

Any scenario that lets a defender burn a few buildings and run away for victory sounds like a badly broken scenario that needs to be fixed.
 

Reepicheep

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btw, as a followup, I just discovered that Jungles need a 12 to spread. Shows how much of a PTO newbie I am... I rolled two 11's thinking they were succesful, but then discovered even 11's were not good enough! :)
 
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Reepicheep said:
IMO, scenarios should be built to withstand the full ruleset. If kindling is going to bust a scenario, the designer should specifically disallow it since kindling is a regular feature of the rules.

Any scenario that lets a defender burn a few buildings and run away for victory sounds like a badly broken scenario that needs to be fixed.
Hmmmm... :confused:

I can think of quite a few times where I could have grabbed a 'victory' by using a vehicle crew to jump a victory building (in a scenario designed before such SSRs) and the like.

If the SSRs grow ever more lengthly to cover every odd eventuality (what was the outcome of 'purposely killing reindeer sleighs to find minefields' discussion?) I will be disappointed. I like ASL for 'playing with historical stuff' not playing 'what game mechanic can I manipulate to win'. :OHNO:

I guess it is personal. I'm also getting dangerously close to arguments about sleaze that drag out ad infinitum and usually devolve into slagging matches. Opinions were solicited and I gave one. Now I will... :hush:
 

Robin Reeve

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Reepicheep said:
If kindling is going to bust a scenario, the designer should specifically disallow it since kindling is a regular feature of the rules.
If things were to be made from the start again, I'd add a special rule :
"Unless otherwise specified by an SSR :
- Scenario begins with no Wind and Moderate EC.
- Kindling is NA
- Prisonners don't count as Exit VP."

These elements are so frequent, that they ought to be considered as standard.
I'd say that kindling usually shouldn't be allowed...
 

Fiedler

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Reepicheep said:
btw, as a followup, I just discovered that Jungles need a 12 to spread. Shows how much of a PTO newbie I am... I rolled two 11's thinking they were succesful, but then discovered even 11's were not good enough! :)
:devil:
Did think it was a bit odd kindleing jungle. Figured I'd let you waste your time you little pyromaniac .-)
:devil: :halo: :whist:
 
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