Kibitzing

In tournament play, should rule errors be pointed out during play?

  • YES

    Votes: 45 42.1%
  • NO

    Votes: 62 57.9%

  • Total voters
    107
  • Poll closed .

Stewart

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
242
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
Do you realise that you are arguing with Jim McLeod, who passed away years ago?
You have brought necroposting to its full measure.
<shudder>
Do you realize there isn't a GRAVESTONE by his name....
The POINT is still valid on his thoughts ..
Why do you post senseless responses like this ???/

Is HE the only one with his thoughts?? no ??
Then 100% valid...

You realize I can argue with George Washington on the merits of having a Constitution over remaining Colonies?
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
That's not arguing, that just raving. -- jim
Well I argue with Captain Bacchus and Colonel Cuervo all the time. That's just being inebriated. 🤪🤪
I hate it when they win the argument. ☹☹😉

At a tournament I would notify the TD and let him resolve it.

As Perry pointed out in reference to the error made in the OP Hill Series Replay " A.2 baby ".


All that being said it can be conditional. I believe events should be learning experiences, especially for newbies. I would be more inclined to inform the TD in that case than if two grognards are duking it out, especially if placing in the event is on the line. Btw that is not very important IMHO but some take it quite seriously. 😉
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
What also has to be considered is that you may be the one who is interpreting the rules or setup incorrectly. 🤔😉🙄
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
10,418
Reaction score
3,715
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
Well I argue with Captain Bacchus and Colonel Cuervo all the time. That's just being inebriated. 🤪🤪
I hate it when they win the argument. ☹☹😉

At a tournament I would notify the TD and let him resolve it.
They are there to hear your arguments and perhaps make counter arguments in return. If you're arguing with them in the car while you're all alone, that would be raving. -- jim
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
They are there to hear your arguments and perhaps make counter arguments in return. If you're arguing with them in the car while you're all alone, that would be raving. -- jim
Not only that it would be drunk driving, something to be avoided!☹☹
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
If I see people with boards set up incorrectly early in a round, I will say so. That is my limit unless asked by both players.

As a side note, it is interesting to see who was posting in 2005.
It is quite interesting to see who was posting back then.

Prior post stated that there was no gravestone by Jim's name. Is there a way to note on their posts that a comrade has passed on? Would seem quite useful and respectful.
 

Sparafucil3

Forum Guru
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
10,418
Reaction score
3,715
Location
USA
First name
Jim
Country
llUnited States
The interesting thing for me is how my thinking has evolved on this issue in the ensuing decade. I still believe you should stay out of my game and if you must, talk to us afterwards. These days however, I wouldn't put your Gun in the well for an illegal setup. I would instead seek to find the nearest legal setup Location that would enable you to take the same shot you're trying to take now, or at the very least, be in the same position to cover the ground you're seeking to cover. I would rather have a good game with good people than win because you failed to recall a rule.

My other issue--as I have evolved from a noob to an above average grognard--is I love to explain rules, but I am finding more and more often that it often feels like I am playing against myself when teaching. I love teaching people rules in a friendly setting. I love explaining rules within the context of the game. I hate it when a players asks me "what are my options" as that's really an appeal for tactics and not a request for an explanation of the rules. Just my .02. -- jim
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
The interesting thing for me is how my thinking has evolved on this issue in the ensuing decade. I still believe you should stay out of my game and if you must, talk to us afterwards. These days however, I wouldn't put your Gun in the well for an illegal setup. I would instead seek to find the nearest legal setup Location that would enable you to take the same shot you're trying to take now, or at the very least, be in the same position to cover the ground you're seeking to cover. I would rather have a good game with good people than win because you failed to recall a rule.

My other issue--as I have evolved from a noob to an above average grognard--is I love to explain rules, but I am finding more and more often that it often feels like I am playing against myself when teaching. I love teaching people rules in a friendly setting. I love explaining rules within the context of the game. I hate it when a players asks me "what are my options" as that's really an appeal for tactics and not a request for an explanation of the rules. Just my .02. -- jim
Well put Sir. The game evolves and hopefully we as players evolve also.

Also a major difference between pointing out an opponent's error so as to have a better game than involving oneself in other people's games.
 

Houlie

CEO of HoulieDice (TM)
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
796
Location
Minnesota, USA
Country
llUnited States
If Jim responds though we are all good, as we will know that they are rolling bones in heaven☠.
I am always willing to respond to an opponent's rules question during a game -- tournament or otherwise. These tend to be objective, fact-based responses. Just like I will correct an opponent who declares an 8-flat shot when it's really an 8-1. These are factual, mechanical elements of the game.

That said, questions on tactics and applying a given rule in a tournament game, is another matter. I would never offer tips and tactics to an opponent on how to defeat me. Ever.

In a tournament game, if I see an illegal set up before the start of the game, I'd say something in advance, i.e., "Hey, could you double-check the card again?". That's just me. We have all screwed up a set up before. If it is a mid-game discovery, I'd see if we could find a suitable resolution, but not one that would offer an advantage to the person who made the error. Say, a better gun position with side shots on three Panthers.

In non-tournament game, it depends on the opponent's experience level or if it is a "learning" game with a newbie. One of my regular opponents recently watched me totally gack the rowhouse control rules costing me what would have been a decent chance to win the game -- at least make a solid run at it. We are both competent, experienced players. I would never ever would have wanted him to tell me of my mistake while I was making it. The bitter pill of defeat has helped me learn from my mistakes has been the best way to raise my game.
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
I am always willing to respond to an opponent's rules question during a game -- tournament or otherwise. These tend to be objective, fact-based responses. Just like I will correct an opponent who declares an 8-flat shot when it's really an 8-1. These are factual, mechanical elements of the game.

That said, questions on tactics and applying a given rule in a tournament game, is another matter. I would never offer tips and tactics to an opponent on how to defeat me. Ever.

In a tournament game, if I see an illegal set up before the start of the game, I'd say something in advance, i.e., "Hey, could you double-check the card again?". That's just me. We have all screwed up a set up before. If it is a mid-game discovery, I'd see if we could find a suitable resolution, but not one that would offer an advantage to the person who made the error. Say, a better gun position with side shots on three Panthers.

In non-tournament game, it depends on the opponent's experience level or if it is a "learning" game with a newbie. One of my regular opponents recently watched me totally gack the rowhouse control rules costing me what would have been a decent chance to win the game -- at least make a solid run at it. We are both competent, experienced players. I would never ever would have wanted him to tell me of my mistake while I was making it. The bitter pill of defeat has helped me learn from my mistakes has been the best way to raise my game.
I can see your point about not being told of a mistake in a non-tournament game although I believe that you are referring to a tactical mistake and not a rules mistake. In any game, tournament or friendly, I would always appreciate rules errors being pointed out by my opponent. I'm there to learn and play the game the most true to rules as is possible.

Tactics are a different matter. Talk about them after the scenario or better yet set it up again, switch sides and show me how it should be done!☹😉🤔🤗🥰
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,573
Reaction score
2,482
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Do you realise that you are arguing with Jim McLeod, who passed away years ago?
You have brought necroposting to its full measure.
<shudder>
He had an experience in a game, he searched the forum for a discussion before starting a new post, he acknowledged the thread was an older one, and he posted something for discussion.

I guess I don't see what the problem is. It's kind of nice when people keep related discussions in the same discussion thread rather than having a million new ones.

Also interesting to see Jim's thoughts here. And not terrible to have him briefly back with us in an active discussion.
 

Stewart

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
242
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
Well I argue with Captain Bacchus and Colonel Cuervo all the time. That's just being inebriated. 🤪🤪
I hate it when they win the argument. ☹☹😉

At a tournament I would notify the TD and let him resolve it.
I did that....the TD accused me of calling the other TD a cheat and gave him the game...when he didnt' turn in his HIP gun location..
Assholes are everywhere
 

Stewart

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
242
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
He had an experience in a game, he searched the forum for a discussion before starting a new post, he acknowledged the thread was an older one, and he posted something for discussion.

I guess I don't see what the problem is. It's kind of nice when people keep related discussions in the same discussion thread rather than having a million new ones.

Also interesting to see Jim's thoughts here. And not terrible to have him briefly back with us in an active discussion.
Very true...

Some people don't like to engage...but rather ENGAGE in other people....
It's irrelevant if the Poster is alive or not...otherwise, why doesn't the moderator DELETE all of the deceased peoples posts?
Why? They need to keep their post numbers climbing up....
 

Actionjick

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
1,437
Country
llUnited States
I did that....the TD accused me of calling the other TD a cheat and gave him the game...when he didnt' turn in his HIP gun location..
Assholes are everywhere
That's a good example of why I personally don't believe that a TD should compete in a tournament he is running. Fish felt the same way after observing some questionable behavior at a tournament bitd.

Full disclosure follows. I did compete at the first two Oktoberfests where the attendance was small enough that Fish could handle it without much assistance from me ( 17 the 1st year, 40 plus the 2nd year ). After the second year I helped Fish as TD. Fish never played in the tournament.

There was an occurrence the second year that reinforced our belief about TDs competing.

The early Oktoberfests were held Friday through Sunday and those participating in the Weekend Tournament ( now The Grofaz ) had to play nine scenarios. I had to work on Friday and didn't get there until after six pm. I immediately started playing as I had a lot of ground to make up if I wanted to get nine scenarios played. I won that first scenario and as I started to fill out the record sheet my opponent stated that he thought it was a friendly game, not a tournament game! I was Stunned and Shocked! I didn't have the time to play a friendly game! We took the matter to Fish who ruled that I would get the win as a tournament game but it wouldn't be a tournament game loss for my opponent. An equitable decision I believe but I felt badly for having put Fish in that position.

The increased attendance by the third year, over 60, made it impractical for Fish to handle on his own so I went to fulltime TD. That solved that dilemma.

Okay for TDs to have friendly games or compete in events that are being run at the tournament but not by the tournament TD. We had people run a few such events at Oktoberfest and I competed in one. Lost quite early if I recall! Wait I do recall. The scenario was Italian Brothers against McGrath!! That non platoon moving jick!!!😥☹😉🙄


Btw, as much as I enjoyed competing I found being a TD at Oktoberfest with Fish was even more enjoyable and much more rewarding because of and thanks to all of those who attended.
 
Last edited:
Top