KGP - Cloaking & HIP at Night

[Mr Incredible]

Got a question about KGP and Cloaking/HIP for an attacker. I'm playing the Germans at night in CGII and have chosen the Attack Chit to maintain mobility and thus can use Cloaking.

Dug this question out from an old thread which was never answered:

KGP CG SSR 5 says: ".... The Scenario Attacker _may_ use normal Cloaking for his Infantry, even if they set up on-map. ..... "
Does this mean he may use Cloaking for all or none, or that he may use Cloaking for some units, and not for others?

Say for example I have 12 SE. I get 12 Cloaking counters. Can I then spend some FPP to HIP say 3-4 squads? Spending FPP on Dummy 1/2" ? appears to be a waste except for 5/8" dummies.

However, E1.41 states: The Scenario Attacker's Infantry (only) always starts the scenario in the form of Cloaking counters gives the impression that HIP is not possible as that is not Cloaking, or can it be used if the units are Cloaked?

 

[Mr Incredible]

 

[CTKnudsen]

I would argue that you can do so, for two reasons. First, the use of "may" in P8.4 CG5, referring to E1.4-.43. However, later in the SSR it specifically states that "Cloaking-counter HIP is NA." This would seem to imply that the scenario Attacker is able to HIP non-cloaking counters as per normal. There is a Q&A that asks some similar questions regarding VotG, which states that while all infantry starting offboard must use cloaking counters, there is no such restriction for onboard infantry. While it is a bit of a stretch to assume that a Q&A addressing VotG would apply to KGP, I would think here that this is a more of a general rule clarification that should be applied to E1.4 when this is re-written to allow for night attacks that begin with attackers onboard.

The question then becomes how many cloaking counters do you receive? One per squad equivalent in the total OB as per 1.411, or would you lose a cloaking counter for every squad equivalent set up HIP?

Barring someone smarter that I coming along to tell me how to do it properly, I would play it that you can use FPP to set up on-board units HIP if you like, but each such unit loses you a cloaking counter.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Mr Incredible]

Bumping this again to see if there is a final word either way.

The more I read into it, it seems to suggest if I choose any cloaking I can't set-up HIP/dummies. But I keep going round in circles and then think the above might be right.

CG5 of P8.4 the CG SSRs states (my emphasis):

The Scenario Attacker may use normal Cloaking (E1.4-.43) for his Infantry, even if they set up on-map.

Then this part of E1.41 has me stumped:

The Scenario Attacker's Infantry (only) always starts the scenario in the form of Cloaking counters.....

That seems to suggest that IF units are chosen to be Cloaked then all units must be Cloaked if able to. There no other CG SSR or rule that seems to be to the contrary. If any units are to be HIP then Cloaking can't be used at all.

Anyone played a KGP night date? And what was the approach to allowing some units to Cloak and others HIP?

 

[Brian W]

Played one KGP CG night scenario and only cloaking was used. The Scenario Attacker cannot also be the Scenario Defender.

 

[Mr Incredible]

Played one KGP CG night scenario and only cloaking was used. The Scenario Attacker cannot also be the Scenario Defender.

I'm not saying being a Scenario Defender. Both sides can be the Scenario Attacker at night, which is the case I'm talking about. Cloaking MAY be used, doesn't have to be used. Does that mean if Cloaking is used that side can or can not also use HIP/dummies?

 

[Brian W]

So we are talking of buying concealment and HIP, not that given by being the Defender. I'd say you can do that. I don't recall if we did that, but I was the Attacker and had no intention of buying HIP when I wanted to attack. Probably needs a Q&A though.

 

[Mr Incredible]

That's exactly my question.

As the Germans I chose the attack Chit purely so I won't get stuck on a No Move counter, so still intending to defend and not get visions of grandeur and try and attack a Battalion with a reinforced company.

 

[Brian W]

As the Germans I chose the attack Chit purely so I won't get stuck on a No Move counter, so still intending to defend and not get visions of grandeur and try and attack a Battalion with a reinforced company.

I'd say you answered your own question; if you are using the rules to avoid being the Defender, you should be punished for doing so by not being allowed to use HIP/dummies.

 

[Mr Incredible]

Posted a Q&A and let's see what the answer is.

 

[Mr Incredible]

Finally and answer and posted the same into the Perry Sez sub-forum:

>Got a question about the use of Cloaking at Night in KGP.
>
>If a side chooses the Attack Chit it is the Scenario Attacker.
>
>As the Scenario Attack they MAY use normal cloaking per CG5 of P8.4.
>
>Does that mean that units (not cloaked units) may not be start HIP or
>Concealed if a side chooses to use Cloaking?


No.

>If the answer to the above is no, how many Cloaked counters can a side
>get?
>
>Is it based on the total number of squad-equivalents in his at start
>OB (including both HIP/Concealed and non-HIP/non-Concealed)?


Yes.


>Or, is it based on the total number of non-HIP/non-Concealed squad
>equivalents in his at start OB?


No.


....Perry

MMP