Jutland Multiplayer Campaign

saddletank

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Edited this first post to remove the original text entirely. I will now use it to hold the game rules as and when I draw them up.

VICTORY POINTS

RN


MERCANTILE WARFARE

Capturing a neutral cargo ship = 1

NAVAL COMBAT
Sinking old small TB (Flanders boats) = 0.25
Sinking old TB (Ems-Jade-Elbe Defence boats and IV Flot) = 0.5
Sinking 'UB'/'UC' Sub = 0.75
Sinking 'U' Sub = 1
Sinking modern TB = 1.5
Sinking zerstorer (B97/G101 class) = 2.5
Sinking old slow CL (Arcona/Niobe/Thetis/Nymphe/Medusa/Frauenlob) = 3
Sinking Nautilus/Pelikan = 4
Sinking old CL (Hamburg/Berlin/Munchen/Danzig/Stettin/Stuttgart) = 5
Sinking modern 10.5cm CL (Strassburg/Stralsund/Rostock/Regensburg/Graudenz) = 6
Sinking Raiders = 6
Sinking modern 15cm CL (Pillau/Elbing/Wiesbaden/Frankfurt/Brummer/Bremse/Konigsberg II Class/Stralsund 15cm) = 8
Sinking pre-dreadnought = 10
Sinking 28cm BB/BC = 20
Sinking 30.5cm BB/BC = 25
Sinking 38cm BB = 30

OPERATIONS

CONDUCTING SHORE BOMBARDMENTS

Flanders Towns = 8
German Towns = 20
(with Monitor Squadron -2, with 3rd BS 0, with any Dreadnought Squadron/BCF +4)

MINELAYING, EACH SUCCESSFUL MISSION
E.41 = 0.5
Abdiel = 2
Pluton = 3
(off Oostende -2, off Zeebrugge -1, off Bight entrances 0, inside Bight +1)

SEAPLANE RAIDS (per A/C)
Flanders Towns = 0.25
German Towns = 0.5
Zeppelin Bases = 0.75
(Engadine, Riviera 4 planes ea., Vindex 6 planes, Campania 10 planes)

KM

MERCANTILE WARFARE

Capturing a British cargo ship = 3
Neutral cargo ship breaks blockade = 1.5
Per U-Boat/Day in a Channel Primary Shipping Lane (Dover to Lands End) = 0.5
Per U-Boat/Day in a W or N Wales Primary Shipping Lane = 1
Per U-Boat/Day in an E Coast Primary Shipping Lane = 0.25
Per CL Raider Day in a Channel Primary Shipping Lane (Dover to Lands End) = 1
Per CL Raider Day in a W or N Wales Primary Shipping Lane = 2
Per CL Raider Day in an E Coast Primary Shipping Lane = 0.5
Per BC Raider Day in a Channel Primary Shipping Lane (Dover to Lands End) = 2
Per BC Raider Day in a W or N Wales Primary Shipping Lane = 4
Per BC Raider Day in an E Coast Primary Shipping Lane = 1

NAVAL COMBAT
Sinking TB (French or RN) = 0.25
Sinking 'A' Class DD ('27knotters')/French DD other than Enseigne Roux/Francis Garnier = 0.5
Sinking 'B', 'C', 'D' class DD ('30knotters') = 0.75
Sinking 'E' or 'F' (River or Tribal) Class DD or French Enseigne Roux/Francis Garnier = 1
Sinking 'B', 'C', 'V' Class or French Sub = 0.75
Sinking 'D', 'E', 'EM', 'F', 'G', 'H' Class Sub = 1
Sinking 'H', 'I', 'K', 'L', 'M' Class DD = 1.5
Sinking 'R' Class DD, FL, Swift = 2.5
Sinking Pluton, Light Monitors, Engadine, Riviera, Vindex, AMC = 4
Sinking Abdiel, Medium & Heavy Monitors, Campania = 5
Sinking 25kt 4" CL (Blonde/Fearless/Active/etc) = 5
Sinking County Class CA & Dupetit-Thouars = 6
Sinking Devonshire Class CA = 6.5
Sinking Town Class CL = 7
Sinking D.of.Edinburgh/Warrior Class CA = 8
Sinking 28kt CL = 8
Sinking Minotaur Class CA = 8.5
Sinking King Edward VII Class = 10
Sinking 12" BB/BC = 20
Sinking 13.5" BB/BC = 25
Sinking 15" BB/BC = 30

OPERATIONS

CONDUCTING SHORE BOMBARDMENTS

Portsmouth to Plymouth inclusive = 40
Newhaven and French Ports = 20
Southend to Dover inclusive = 30
Harwich to Berwick inclusive = 15
Edinburgh/Rosyth/Granton = 30
Other E Coast Scottish Towns = 20
Stromness & Lerwick = 30
(with at least 3 BCs +0%, with 2nd BS +5%, with BB squadron +10%, with guns smaller than 28cm -10%)

OFFENSIVE MINELAYING
Flanders UC Flotilla = 1
CL = 2
Nautilus = 3
Pelikan = 4
(non-coastal secondary shipping lane -1, coastal secondary shipping lane 0, primary shipping lane +1, Liverpool/Plymouth/Devonport/Southampton/Portsmouth/Dover/Chatham/Harwich/Rosyth/Scapa +2)

REPAIRS

DAMAGE LEVEL LIGHT-MOD-HEAVY
SHIP TYPE
TB/Sub/DD 24h-7d-14d
CL/Raider 72h-14d-28d
AC/AMC 7d-28d-2m
BB/BC 14d-2m-4m

Variable die roll vs hours:

1-2-3-4 = reduce repair time by 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours
7-8-9-10 = increase repair time by 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours

Variable die roll vs 7 days or 14 days:

1-2-3 = reduce repair time by 1, 2 or 3 days
8-9-10 = increase repair time by 1, 2 or 3 days

Variable die roll vs 28 days:

1-2-3-4 = reduce repair time by 2, 4, 6 or 8 days
7-8-9-10 = increase repair time by 2, 4, 6 or 8 days

Variable die roll vs months:

1-2-3 = reduce repair time by 1, 2 or 3 weeks
8-9-10 = increase repair time by 1, 2 or 3 weeks

ACH VARIABLE - rolled every 15 minutes in MP games - sides not advised of result

1-2-3 poor ammo handling off/fragile AP shells off
4-5-6-7 ammo handling off/fragile AP on
8-9 ammo handling on/fragile AP off
10 ammo handling on/fragile AP on

OBJECTIVES

RN


1) Interdicting neutral ships trading to Germany. This blockade must be maintained as it is strangling Germany's ability to wage war. The Grand Fleet is needed to protect the cruisers and armed merchant cruisers (AMCs) that are the main tools of the blockade that stretches across the top of the North Sea from Scotland to Norway.
2) Protecting British cargo ships (these are shown on your side's map and run along regular shipping lanes). They are AI controlled, you cannot delay or divert them, only protect them. Essentially you need a strong patrol presence of light forces in the sea zones with a brownish colour (hit the F3 key to bring up the shipping lanes and patrol forces overlay).
3) Protecting military cross-channel traffic. This is a key duty of the forces based at Dover, Portsmouth, Dunkerque and the French channel ports. It's abstracted in the game.
4) Protecting the English east coast by way of light forces to catch the enemy should he try to bombard coastal towns as has been done in the past. This is a purely political consideration, not a military one but there are victory points to be gained by the Germans for bombarding towns.

KM

1) Break the blockade. This can be fully achieved only by defeating the Grand Fleet but since useful forces must remain after any victory the German team must play a careful game, preferably drawing out parts of the British forces and defeating them in detail until parity is achieved.
2) Interdict Entente trade. As most of the enemy trade is coastal, submarines are the most obvious tool for this job, however surface raiders are a possibility as well. There is a lot of trade that moves on the western side of the map, particularly in the Western Approaches to the Channel and in the Irish Sea that is largely unprotected. There is also a trade in colliers from Norway to France that supports the French war effort and from Britain to France across the Channel.
3) Interdict cross-channel military traffic. This seems to be mostly abstracted in the game - at least as the British player I have seen no worthwhile cross-channel traffic to speak of so I'm assuming the game does not represent it, however I will use a victory points system that rewards the German team for each "submarine day" and "surface raider day" that is spent in key areas of the Channel where it is assumed they would be disrupting this important traffic.
4) Bombard certain east coast English towns. This has a propaganda effect only but will also assist in winning the war in terms of victory points. It may also goad the Royal Navy into reacting with main surface units which can then be brought to battle on favourable terms.
 
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Von der Tann

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There have been several attempts for a MP campaign, but so far, none took off. The idea seems sound enough, so I'd like to give it a go.

Possible command posts for the German side of the campaign would include:
Chef des Admiralstabs - Chief of Staff, overall command
Chef der Hochseeflotte - Commander of the High Seas Fleet
Chef des Marinekorps Flandern - Commander of the Marine corps in Flanders, commanding all surface units in the Channel / Flanders area, possibly including a few subs for local use
Chef der Aufklärungsstreitkräfte - Commander of the Scouting Forces, subordinate of the HSF commander, but strong own responsibilities
Chef der Marinestation der Nordsee - Chief of the North Sea theatre, commander of all local defense forces other than HSF and SF
Führer der U-Boote - Commander of the Submarines, responsible for all U-boat activities, especially the strategically important submarine warfare
Führer der Luftschiffe - Commander of the Airships, responsible for all airship activities

These are a lot of posts, I know, and the demarcation of responsibilities and the coordination of the forces may be difficult. To make it easier, several posts can be united in one person, and the responsibilities and decision processes could be streamlined to grant an effective leadership.
 
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saddletank

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Thanks for that. My main aim is to give each person who plays a meaningful job that will occupy and interest him. I would rather have a few fully engaged players than lots who have almost nothing to do (because I know from bitter experience what happens to such players in online campaigns), so I will combine some posts, hence my intention of combining the Zeppelins with the defensive light forces and the Flanders surface flotilla with the U-boats based there.

Were there any good ideas in the other MP campaign proposals that might be worth borrowing?

Also... how big is each circle on the map? By my reckoning its about 25km. Is that right?
 
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Von der Tann

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These attempts were a while back, so I can't remember any specifics. However, a quick search brought up the following thread:

Link

One cell is indeed 25x25 km, further info can be found in the manual.

It could be practical to modify the regular campaign rules, like the possibility to sink captured merchants. This would be good for the Germans, who will seldom have the opportunity to get a captured merchant home.
 
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Von der Tann

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A few further problems along the road:

a) The MP campaign would have to be played by a neutral person.
b) Mines would have no effect in MP battles like they do in campaign games.
c) No shore batteries.

I hope that the editor will allow for such things some time in the future, but right now, we would have to make do without them and improvise.
 

saddletank

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A few further problems along the road:

a) The MP campaign would have to be played by a neutral person.
That would be me. I would only move forces exactly as the two teams ordered them to move and report back exactly what happened.

b) Mines would have no effect in MP battles like they do in campaign games.
I think the use of mines is a strategic one, like submarines, they will have a great deal of effect on the map but like submarines none in battles (I think that is no loss at all)

c) No shore batteries.
Again these have an effect in some campaign battles - the tiny encounters of two torpedo boats vs one merchant I will play both sides but explicitly following the standing orders of the two teams - for example the RN team might issue standing orders to its destroyer patrols to 'Never risk losses from shore batteries when in pursuit of neutral cargo ships'. Such a standing order would be sufficient for me to play out any small action that involved shore batteries.

Shore batteries *could* have an effect by randomly damaging a large vessel or sinking a small one and I can represent this by the roll of some dice. All these are details we can discuss and agree on.

I hope that the editor will allow for such things some time in the future, but right now, we would have to make do without them and improvise.
Correct. Its the making-do and improvising of campaigns based on software that I especially enjoy. I think these points are minor obstacles on the road to a lot of enjoyment for the players.
 
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pappy367

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hello i am the guy that was working on it before, and would love to be involved in something like this. i actually still have my webhost up www.castlesofsteel.com and actually been doing some historical leg work the last month or so on the project. let me know if i would be any help or if you would like to talk ideas. i had a huge list of ideas but just got overwhelmed with the lack of support.
 

saddletank

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Hi there... and wow! That's incredibly generous of you. What I would need to play this MP campaign would be a place for the two teams to meet online securely and have discussions. It would be possible to do this by e-mails copying everyone in but a forum style 'home' is much better since everything is preserved. The forum would need possibly four sections 1) General "out of character" discussion regarding rules, technical subjects and so on 2) A secure "in-character" RN-only discussion area to talk strategy and tactics and where the Umpire would announce Game Events that are of interest to the RN team, 3) A secure "in-character" KM-only discussion area to talk strategy and tactics and where the Umpire would announce Game Events that are of interest to the KM team and 4) An "in-character" announcement area where events both sides would commonly need to be aware of would go.

Therefore the various member logins will need different administration rights for three different user groups: Umpire, RN and KM. Could your site handle that?

The other facility a site would need would be some server space to upload images, diagrams or other files. I would not send battle scenarios there but would prefer to send these out 5 minutes before the online battle is fought and only to those players who were assembled ready to play it online that day. Once the battle is over there is no way to prevent me from stopping the players peeking in the scenario file to see what the enemy had but I would trust you all not to since that knowledge would spoil the fog of war experience.

The files sent would include large numbers of in-game screenshots as well as useful things like screens of the task force organisation panels so this means the image library would need to be split into three areas - access for Umpire and RN in one and access for the Umpire and KM in a second and access for all in a third. Could your site handle that as well?

Other than that I'm a big believer in KISS. I'd rather randomly roll dice or make decisions on the fly as to how to fine tune various events. A big book of rules is never going to cover everything and its bound to lack guidance at the time you most need it. The main rule is of course "You do not argue with the Umpire." That is a cardinal rule of wargaming everywhere and numerous games I have played in have been spoiled by players not observing it. Accepting that rule is going to be a mandatory condition when a player applies to play. ;)

As to historical leg work, KISS is in force again here - I won't be doing any. SES' game 'Jutland' is all the historical background I will need other than possibly a few historical commander names and the titles of organisations or commands (see my first post). The campaign will be the full 1916 game with Room 40, nothing added and nothing taken away.
 
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Von der Tann

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There will, of course, be an almighty discussion about the specifics of the campaign. For example: which ACH settings will we use, and why the campaign with Room 40? But the key rule is approved, I know that one from RPG sessions.
 

saddletank

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Those are good questions and in answering them I will probably bring about the moment when people may decide the game is not for them because they don't agree with my take on how to do things ;)

Or you may prefer to command at the map level and not in the online battles...

Please just bear this in mind... Just because you have a lot of big ships with big guns does not mean you must line them up opposite the opponent's big ships with their big guns and slug it out. Understanding that is key to my thinking in this project. "Losing the war in an afternoon" should always be borne in mind. Subtlety is the thing here. Clever strategies are the thing.

I wish to play the campaign with Room 40 'on' because it's more historically correct than not having it on.

Historical correctness, where we can simulate it is something I am always in favour of.

While my preference is for both ACH settings to be off because I feel that SES have gone too far and made the RN ships too vulnerable with them both on, I'd be okay with poor ammo handling off and fragile AP shells on. Or if people like the uncertainty of a die-rolled variable over time I'm okay with such a system though I think Jess' one needs some tweaking because of the bell curve of results you get with 2 6-sided dice. A 10-sided die with these results would be my preference.

1-2-3 poor ammo handling off/fragile AP shells off
4-5-6-7 ammo handling off/fragile AP on
8-9 ammo handling on/fragile AP off
10 ammo handling on/fragile AP on

This gives a variation every 15 minutes as Jess' roll does but weights things more away from the KM's favour. There is now a 30% chance of poor ammo handling being on and 50% of fragile AP shells being on and a 70% chance of one or other being on but the chance of both at the same time is only 10%. My take on this variable range of options is not that it favours the RN too much but that having the ACH settings both on favours the KM too much.

The KM had to win the North Sea conflict away from the battlefield. Much like Napoleon with his smaller armies facing the larger armies of the Grand Alliance, he won his battles by strategic manoeuvre and bringing to the field more men than his more numerous enemies could. The HSF had to engineer a favourable ratio of battle odds through strategy. Slugging it out with the whole GF is not going to break the blockade, the Germans need to be more subtle than that.

I have noticed that the game seems to be weighted in favour of the Germans in any case and I think the campaign could be won by the HSF hardly leaving port... there's several strategies to try and I'd be delighted to see the KM team devise a clever one.

As I said above, just because the Germans have a lot of nice big ships, using them is not their only option and I dislike war gamers who forget the wider picture in a campaign and 'get stuck in' for no other reason than they have a nice painted army and want to use it - I want players here to be more cunning than that.

I would also like to have the gunnery accuracy and effect sliders dialled down as well. The rate at which damage is handed out and at which battles reach 'critical mass' is too fast. I've been running two campaigns for a while, one from each side with the Simulation Settings at these positions:

Gunnery Accuracy 20%
Gunnery Damage 75% (this could still do with being lower I think. Perhaps 67%)
Torpedo Accuracy 150%
Torpedo Damage 100%
Damage Control 100%

Battles are now taking on a more controllable steady attrition feel rather than the 'wham, bam thank you ma'am' style they were at the default settings.

I would also impose a rule requiring the RN to either fully accept or fully decline battle - there will be no hovering about just inside their gun range and outside German gun range. Jellicoe's and Beatty's ships were not fitted with laser designators and GPS and there was no practical way they could so accurately estimate battle ranges as the game allows us to, and more importantly nor was there the political freedom to do so. The same applies for any ship with a marginally longer gun range.

I have some other ideas about fleet management and always preserving divisions unless damaged ships leave the line as well but that one is less significant, I just want us to say goodbye to these unrealistic games where the RN dance about the ocean outside the HSF's gun range. It was an impossibility historically and while I'm a believer that the players should try different strategies and tactics that they think would be more successful than the admirals of history, I don't agree that us gamers should be able to use the game software to do things completely contrary to what an admiral commanding was able to do with regard to the weapons systems at his disposal and the fleet organisation, tactical doctrine and ranks and seniority of flag officers commanding divisions that they had to work with. I'm fine with divisions being reorganised in port, but not in battle unless you split damaged ships out to form a division of cripples. Players taking one ship out of a division and cruising it about independently (usually so as to protect it from fire) is not going to happen because there was no organisational means the admirals had at their disposal to do this.

Clever tactics are fine, brilliant strategies are great but they must be achieved with the tools available and one of those tools is the organisational structure of the time.

Ideally in this game I'd like the online playing team who play the battles to not be the campaign commanders. Online players would be expected to rotate about and play both sides for flexibility's sake, while the teams of people running the higher strategies and map moves should not be the same people. This allows us the maximum flexibility with our limited online MP gaming group. To have a situation, for example, where four players turned up for an online game but three of them were from the RN campaign team and insisted they play RN in the online battles is going to cause us problems and delays, so the online players should be fully flexible and be prepared to play on either side.
 

saddletank

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Please let me clarify about Room 40. I will not be using the game's Room 40 reports but will use a random die roll system. Room 40 may correctly identify and time a German movement, or it may get the time or type of move wrong, or it may make errors about what is being moved, for example the decoders may make errors in deciphering an order to strengthen the Bight torpedo boat patrols as an instruction to send out cruiser forces. Room 40 might completely fail to decipher a signal in time at all.

I want to take away from the game the certainty that SES' game gives. There is way too much information given to the player in both the battle games and the campaign map so I want to try and bring in some 'role-playing' elements and some uncertainty. Room 40 needs to be fairly reliable otherwise the RN team have no reason to trust it, but it will make mistakes or delay information at times. It is not going to be the absolutely certain spotlight on the Jade entrances that the game's default Room 40 seems to be.

Likewise, to add surprises and confusion to the other side I would encourage players to move formations about. In a campaign game if you are the HSF and you meet HMS Southampton you *know* you have met the entire BCF because the AI does not adjust its task forces. I'd like players to create confusion by shifting cruisers between squadrons or scouting groups and to shift squadrons and scouting groups between task forces. It all adds to the surprise and fun of the online battles.
 

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1-2-3 poor ammo handling off/fragile AP shells off
4-5-6-7 ammo handling off/fragile AP on
8-9 ammo handling on/fragile AP off
10 ammo handling on/fragile AP on
Heh, in long term this in fact equal in having both options ON, but with less effect compared to programmed by SES.

I always wanted not just ON/OFF toggle, but sliders.

fragile AP: Minimum effect -------|------ Maximum effect.
Poor ammo handling: Minimum effect -------|------ Maximum effect.
 

Von der Tann

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I'm all for a realistic campaign, as I am in favour of evening the odds a bit for both sides. But of course, we have a few differences to the real-life naval war as it was in 1916:
- No espionage reports, and much less information from deciphered wireless messages
- We already know much about the war as it actually was, so we know what worked and what did not - and what we could do instead
- The zeppelins can be used for scouting exclusively and don't have to do bombing runs against England as well... I'd like that very much, though
- More information about the enemy weaknesses
- No restrictions in the usage of the forces

The bottom line of it all: as much as the situation in the campaign resembles the actual situation in January 1916, we will be fighting a very different war regardless.

You are of course right about the German necessity to fight clever, and to fight dirty as well, as the Germans are the underdog side here and have far less materiel and a much weaker strategic position. But I also think that the German capital ships should be able to be a significant element of any strategy the Admiralstab can come up with - after all, big ship battles are what this game is all about.

The balancing process will be a very delicate one, as it is always the case. On the one hand, the British advantage in numbers and heavy artillery shouldn't enable them to simply overwhelm any German attempt to destroy them, but on the other hand, the Germans shouldn't be able to blow up the whole of the Grand Fleet in an afternoon without taking serious damage themselves.
 

saddletank

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- No espionage reports, and much less information from deciphered wireless messages
I am unsure what espionage was conducted by the two sides but I should imagine it was quite rudimentary and amateur. Spying at Scapa was probably almost impossible but at the mainland British bases it was probably quite easy for the Germans to have agents or sympathizers active around the harbours. Rosyth was very public, it was hard for the warships to slip in and out unseen though this most likely would be done in darkness when possible.

The German bases I just get this feeling would be harder to get a close look at but I'm open to *some* agents reports from time to time of a general nature, with once every so often a small spark of genuine information.

So yes, I will RP some agent activity and provide some agents reports. We can even have a system whereby the two teams spend points on sending agents of different quality to different enemy bases. I am open to all kinds of fun like this that adds layers of drama to the game.

- We already know much about the war as it actually was, so we know what worked and what did not - and what we could do instead
True, but then both sides have hindsight so that factor is balanced out to a degree.

- The zeppelins can be used for scouting exclusively and don't have to do bombing runs against England as well... I'd like that very much, though
I am unsure whether there were more Zeppelins available than are represented in the game and the balance are not there since these were used for bombing, though the bombing raids were fairly unenthusiastic from what I recall. I am not even certain if there was another Zeppelin base and the craft there were the ones that conducted bombing raids. Can you help with that? My thinking is, if the game has every serviceable Zeppelin the Germans had then we should remove part of that strength as allocated to bombing raids from time to time though this might not be a very significant diversion of forces, perhaps in the area of one ship from each base part of the time.

- More information about the enemy weaknesses
Are you saying that we have this information or that you would want more? If we have it then we just bundle that up in the hindsight category and have to live with it. I think the KM was unaware for a long time that Audacious had been sunk. I know the British public were though the press was aware but kept silent at Admiralty and Government insistence.

- No restrictions in the usage of the forces
I plan on a random table of ship and Zeppelin and submarine repairs and overhauls so at any one time a small proportion of the fleets will be unavailable, though these will be small numbers, nothing crippling.

I already assume a significant proportion of the forces are restricted because they don't appear in the campaign - numerous RN ships are scattered around the world or in the Mediterranean and several KM ships are in the Baltic. The overhaul category can include 'needed for services elsewhere' and take a ship or two away for a month or so on a random basis. Things like this are easy to do in an umpired game, I just have to keep it at a reasonable and balanced level.

What is your reaction to my suggested changed random die roll system for ACH?
 
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saddletank

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- The zeppelins can be used for scouting exclusively and don't have to do bombing runs against England as well... I'd like that very much, though
I am unsure whether there were more Zeppelins available than are represented in the game and the balance are not there since these were used for bombing, though the bombing raids were fairly unenthusiastic from what I recall. I am not even certain if there was another Zeppelin base and the craft there were the ones that conducted bombing raids. Can you help with that? My thinking is, if the game has every serviceable Zeppelin the Germans had then we should remove part of that strength as allocated to bombing raids from time to time though this might not be a very significant diversion of forces, perhaps in the area of one ship from each base part of the time.
At the risk of quoting myself here, in an umpire controlled campaign we can do things the software does not allow. For example I can see the RN attempting to bomb the Tondern sheds with seaplanes. There are several seaplane tenders in the RN OOB and several of these could be formed into a rudimentary 'carrier group' to attack shore targets. It would be easy, if successful, to write off a Zeppelin by disallowing it from further use, or even knock a whole base out of action for a random amount of time. The chances of success are small but there is a huge fun element in trying and its this fun element I want to emphasize. So yes, I am open to all kinds of devious plots and enterprises from both sides.
 

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The RN got much of its information on the German movements from deciphered wireless messages, as they had acquired every single code book of the German military and diplomatic services. We don't have wireless messages, so the RN will be somewhat in the dark compared to the situation back then, and it may be an interesting variant to have no information other than what the scouting forces see. On the whole, Room 40 seems to have little other effect than to warn RN command of major German sorties, and it could be challenging to have Britain fight a war in the North Sea without an advantage in information. Both sides also got much information from agents in enemy ports, mainly about merchant shipping, but I guess that a lot of information got out on the Flanders ports at least, since the Belgians can't have been too happy about their occupants - similar to France in WWII. The Germans had known about the loss of Audacious very quickly, by the way, as many American tourists on board of RMS Olympic had witnessed it and also provided photographs of the event.

We do also have the mentioned "hind sight" information, which will make some difference for sure. I can look up info on zeppelins and bases, but since we don't have all that many zeppelins anyway, it shouldn't make that much of a difference. I meant the unrestricted use of forces quite differently, though: I was aiming at the possibility to commit the entire force without the Kaiser or Winston S. Churchill breathing down our necks and shivering at the thought of their favourite toys being in mortal danger... :D

The converted dice system will need some looking at, I am curious what anav thinks about it.

Edit: like the idea about the raids from both sides...
 

saddletank

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It's good to see you at least are so positive about the potential for enjoyment this project promises. I take it you'd like a seat on the KM team? I hope someone - or several someones - will pop in to add to the conversation. I knew it was quiet around this board these days, I didn't think it was this quiet... An RN team player would be nice.
 

pappy367

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let me know if you would like to talk in person, i have icq, skype, ventrillo whatever works, i would like to see what you and a few others think of my ideas and the scope i was trying for if anyone is interested.
 

saddletank

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Unfortunately I don't use IM software but you can PM me here, or my e-mail might be in my profile.

What is your response to my requirements? Can your site provide that?
 

pappy367

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the site is just started to be worked on, alot of stuff would need hashed out. the site is for the campaign i am working on though, i am not really looking at giving up on my campaign, just would be nice instead of having a few projects working and not going anywhere, to pool our support and stuff and make one that will. i think what i am looking to do is a bit more indepth which could make it not probable to do, but i will atleast try. some of the things i am working on is

1. coded messages that can be deciphered by actual player codemakers and codebreakers
2. a vast campaign spanning almost the entire war (yes i know the ship set is for 1916 and on, but alot of the ships were available before and think this would make for a much deeper strategic feel
3. a deeper player group that will be from the leadership down to flotilla commanders, players being assigned there ships and making them feel more like theirs
4. various recon methods
5. deep repair and supply system

i am not sure if that is sort of what you were thinking or not, either way i will help you in anyway i can
 
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