Just picked up SASL and some very basic questions

Simon62

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Hi

Just picked up SASL after 20 odd years and struggling with a few basic concepts and whilst the questions are really simple I am hoping that someone can point me in the right direction as I am grinding to a halt.

I have decided to jump in at the deep end and am playing the PB campaign from 'The Board gamer' magazine.

I have undertaken the setup according to the rules and have a few questions here and then started Go 1 (German Enemy) :

a) given the British setup and the suspect unit setup some suspect enemy units start the game adjacent to my British (friendly) units:
i) is this possible on setup or have I missed something, can units start adjacent (I can't see why not)?
II) Assuming that this is ok at what point to the adjacent suspect enemy units roll for activation - I did this as part of the RPh as the activation rules for advance attitude suspect counters indicate as soon as they are adjacent but not sure if this is correct?

b) The game has enemy units in both Hold and Advance attitude ( I am using VASL so different colour suspect markers for the different attitudes) - when playing and a suspect is turned into a 'real' unit how do you indicate going forward if it is hold/advance attitude for determination of actions? I am using VASL so I assume I can put a label on the unit or leave the original suspect counter with the real unit to remind me?

c) I am on the first move of the enemy go 1 and I am confused as to when I role on the movement action table and which units this roll relates to.
i) do I roll once for all activated infantry units with a move command & suspect units and they all follow that one action.
ii) do I roll once for all activated units so all activated units follow one action and once for all suspect units which all follow that one action..
iii) do I roll for each activated unit (each follows t's own action) but only once for all suspect units (all follow a single action).
iv) do I roll individually for all activated and all suspect units (all follow individual actions)

Any help with these basic points will get me moving again

Thanks in advance

Regards
Simon
 

A_T_Great

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Hi

Just picked up SASL after 20 odd years and struggling with a few basic concepts and whilst the questions are really simple I am hoping that someone can point me in the right direction as I am grinding to a halt.

I have decided to jump in at the deep end and am playing the PB campaign from 'The Board gamer' magazine.

I have undertaken the setup according to the rules and have a few questions here and then started Go 1 (German Enemy) :

a) given the British setup and the suspect unit setup some suspect enemy units start the game adjacent to my British (friendly) units:
i) is this possible on setup or have I missed something, can units start adjacent (I can't see why not)?
II) Assuming that this is ok at what point to the adjacent suspect enemy units roll for activation - I did this as part of the RPh as the activation rules for advance attitude suspect counters indicate as soon as they are adjacent but not sure if this is correct?

b) The game has enemy units in both Hold and Advance attitude ( I am using VASL so different colour suspect markers for the different attitudes) - when playing and a suspect is turned into a 'real' unit how do you indicate going forward if it is hold/advance attitude for determination of actions? I am using VASL so I assume I can put a label on the unit or leave the original suspect counter with the real unit to remind me?

c) I am on the first move of the enemy go 1 and I am confused as to when I role on the movement action table and which units this roll relates to.
i) do I roll once for all activated infantry units with a move command & suspect units and they all follow that one action.
ii) do I roll once for all activated units so all activated units follow one action and once for all suspect units which all follow that one action..
iii) do I roll for each activated unit (each follows t's own action) but only once for all suspect units (all follow a single action).
iv) do I roll individually for all activated and all suspect units (all follow individual actions)

Any help with these basic points will get me moving again

Thanks in advance

Regards
Simon
Hi,
Congrats on buying SASL!
I don't yave the rules with me, so I can't give references, but I know them fairly well.
a, i suspect units cannot setup adjacent to friendly units.
b When suspect units are activated, they immediatly revert to the default attitude which is shown on the scenario card.
c During the PFPh, each stack is rolled for on the activation table. If they don't panic, then you roll on the appropriate fire or movent tables.
In general Suspect units don't roll on the movement table, they just move from one end of the board to the other in a straight line.
Hope that was clear for you.
 

Steed

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To elaborate a little more.

Suspect counters in advance attitude just move straight from one edge of the board to the opposite edge ( usually EBE to FBE ) without any rolling ( they do not panic ). In the AFPh you roll on the appropriate rosette and they will ( if it's not prohibited ) advance in that direction. (Use your best judgement if the counter gets into tricky situation )

Suspect counters in hold attitude do nothing until activated.

Once a suspect counter is activated successfully, then in the PFPh you roll for each individual stack to see what action they take ( PANIC, fire, move, entrench ). Those stacks that fire or entrench you take care of at that point. Those that move you mark with a MOVE marker and will move in the MPh.

But in the MPh you do not roll for each stack's movement command! EDIT : Vehicles you do roll for individually.

If the units are in Advance Attitude then you roll once on the appropriate movement table and ALL units marked with a MOVE marker will follow that command ( EXC automatic actions ).

If the units are in HOLD attitude then you roll twice. One roll is for units with a MOVE marker and an odd # coordinate - they will follow that command. The second roll is for units with a MOVE marker and an even # coordinate.
 
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Simon62

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Ok thanks for the clarifications.

From the first response you indicate that suspects cannot be setup adjacent to friendly units - i can't find that anywhere in the rules can you point me to it i cant see the wood for the trees!!

the situation arises as I am playing the PB SASL campaign from the board gamer and it takes its friendly setup area from the second campaign in PB, the suspect counters then setup in buildings and as per S4.1b- this means that there are suspect units adjacent to friendly units at setup - just can't see where this is prohibited.

Regards
Simon
 

Steed

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I do not have the rules at the moment but I do know that they are not setup within 3 full hexes of the Friendly board edge. I believe its 4.12 or 4.13.

EDIT: I lied, I do have the rules on the work computer. It's 4.11.
 

TopT

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I do not have the rules at the moment but I do know that they are not setup within 3 full hexes of the Friendly board edge. I believe its 4.12 or 4.13.

EDIT: I lied, I do have the rules on the work computer. It's 4.11.
That rule applies to FBE and i don't believe applies to enemy/ friendly unit set up.

There are some SSR's that say ENEMT? FRIENDLY units cannot set up within 3 hexes of each other but i don't think that it is a standard rule.

4.11 PROXIMITY TO FBE: Regardless of the method used to place S?, a S? may never be initially setup within 3 hexes of any whole offboard hex along the FBE.
 

Simon62

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Thank you - i can see the problem as i am playing the campaign the british unts strat on map in a setup area they do not come on from the board edge.

In this instance should I not setup suspect units within 3 hexes of a on map unit?
 

TopT

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Thank you - i can see the problem as i am playing the campaign the british unts strat on map in a setup area they do not come on from the board edge.

In this instance should I not setup suspect units within 3 hexes of a on map unit?
Only if it states that you cannot do that in the SSR's. I do not think that it is a standard rule (IE: ENEMY ?/ FRIENDLY units not being able to set up within 3 hexes of each other).
 

Steed

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That rule applies to FBE and i don't believe applies to enemy/ friendly unit set up.

There are some SSR's that say ENEMT? FRIENDLY units cannot set up within 3 hexes of each other but i don't think that it is a standard rule.

4.11 PROXIMITY TO FBE: Regardless of the method used to place S?, a S? may never be initially setup within 3 hexes of any whole offboard hex along the FBE.

I did not know that - I've only been playing the standard scenarios ( making a big campaign out of them ). But RB is next.

I see my mistake - PB which I've not played. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Simon62

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Ok there is no stipulation in the mission special rules as to the setup just to place suspects in buildings in the German setup area and as per 4.1b - this means that some suspects in advance attitude and some on hold attitude end up adjacent to friendly units so think this is allowed as per Top T comment above.

so going back to the original question at what point do I check to see if the suspect units adjacent to the friendly units are real or not.
The enemy player goes first so as they are adjacent do they check in the Rph or have to wait to the movement phase and move one hex (potentially into the hex of the adjacent friendly unit) before I see if they are revealed?
 

TopT

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so going back to the original question at what point do I check to see if the suspect units adjacent to the friendly units are real or not.
The enemy player goes first so as they are adjacent do they check in the Rph or have to wait to the movement phase and move one hex (potentially into the hex of the adjacent friendly unit) before I see if they are revealed?
You would have to wait until:
a) who the FRIENDLY side chooses to fire at in the PFPh (with a result possibly activating ENEMY ?) , and
b) when the FRIENDLY side starts to move in the MPh (the ENEMY Activation chart determines whom activates due to FRIENDLY moves)

I am not sure I would advance into a ? stack as you never know what you will activate :)
 

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Hi Simon - welcome to SASL; I hope you will love it as much as I do!

Sorry that I'm a little late to this party. I'll add what guidance I can to the fine instruction others have provided above. I have "Breakfast at the Cafe Gondree" but have never played it, so take what follows with a grain of salt. You're a very brave man for making your first foray into SASL a HASL campaign game! (I'd have counseled playing at least one mission 1st just to get the basics under your belt, but after all it's solitaire and the worst that happens is you make some mistakes that turn into learning experiences either way, right?)

- As indicated above, usually in standard missions you won't setup or enter within 3 hexes of ENEMY, most SASL-HASL missions are also written this way, but campaign games are a different animal and if not careful you could end up starting adjacent, as you have discovered.

- In "Cafe" the German (ENEMY) moves first. In this case you will check for activation as indicated on table G1 during the German prep fire phase. In this case Any Adjacent UK unit will trigger an activation, and depending on proximity and DRM others may as well. It might not have been a good idea to setup next to where the Germans were going to place a S? but we'll call that 'the school of hard knocks lesson 1" (And the dice have a way of telling their own story so who knows?)

-During the German movement phase their S? will become activated whenever a concealed unit would lose concealment during a regular game of ASL. (Usually whenever they move into LOS using non-assault movement in concealment terrain or any movement in non-concealment terrain, taking range factors into account.)

- Check the "Prevailing attitude" section of SPB1 for what attitude units activated from S? assume. It looks to me like it's going to be ADVANCE unless they're in a VPO location

- In a normal game, strictly speaking, per the letter of the rules (S9.2) all Advance-attitude activated enemy units follow the same move command as generated from table A4b, and all Hold-attitude activated enemy units will follow one of two commands depending on the odd/evenness of their hex #. Honestly I don't play it that way and I'm guessing there are few that do (Steed being an apparent exception - you must have some unusual games my friend.) Personally I generate a different move command for each moving ENEMY location using the A4a/A4b tables. It's not that onerous unless there are a very large number of moving ENEMY units and it saves you having to deal with the weirdness of how to cope with a "BERSERK" result for the whole ENEMY side at once. It also has the benefit of adding in a little more fog of war to the ENEMY move.

- HOWEVER, in this game, per the "Prevailing Attitude" section, things get both more and less complicated. The advance attitude S? move along a (alternate) hexgrain toward the bridge. As for activated German units, well you'll have to work out for yourself how to reconcile the first sentence "...and any units activated from them..." with the last sentence "Activated units move as per S9." when they are in conflict as it doesn't make much sense to me. You might actually have to start playing and see which makes more sense.

- Finally, it's a good idea to remember that automatic actions will supersede other move commands. Especially as a new player you'll want to familiarize yourself with the automatic actions indicated in S6.3. (Among other things a 'heavy weapon' includes 3pp+ support weapons, so all those German MMG that have LOS to your guys during Prep fire will have fire commands and you'll only be rolling to check for Panic.)

Have fun and don't worry overmuch about making mistakes - you'll work it all out in the long run!
 

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Hi Simon - welcome to SASL; I hope you will love it as much as I do!

Sorry that I'm a little late to this party. I'll add what guidance I can to the fine instruction others have provided above. I have "Breakfast at the Cafe Gondree" but have never played it, so take what follows with a grain of salt. You're a very brave man for making your first foray into SASL a HASL campaign game! (I'd have counseled playing at least one mission 1st just to get the basics under your belt, but after all it's solitaire and the worst that happens is you make some mistakes that turn into learning experiences either way, right?)

- As indicated above, usually in standard missions you won't setup or enter within 3 hexes of ENEMY, most SASL-HASL missions are also written this way, but campaign games are a different animal and if not careful you could end up starting adjacent, as you have discovered.

- In "Cafe" the German (ENEMY) moves first. In this case you will check for activation as indicated on table G1 during the German prep fire phase. In this case Any Adjacent UK unit will trigger an activation, and depending on proximity and DRM others may as well. It might not have been a good idea to setup next to where the Germans were going to place a S? but we'll call that 'the school of hard knocks lesson 1" (And the dice have a way of telling their own story so who knows?)

-During the German movement phase their S? will become activated whenever a concealed unit would lose concealment during a regular game of ASL. (Usually whenever they move into LOS using non-assault movement in concealment terrain or any movement in non-concealment terrain, taking range factors into account.)

- Check the "Prevailing attitude" section of SPB1 for what attitude units activated from S? assume. It looks to me like it's going to be ADVANCE unless they're in a VPO location

- In a normal game, strictly speaking, per the letter of the rules (S9.2) all Advance-attitude activated enemy units follow the same move command as generated from table A4b, and all Hold-attitude activated enemy units will follow one of two commands depending on the odd/evenness of their hex #. Honestly I don't play it that way and I'm guessing there are few that do (Steed being an apparent exception - you must have some unusual games my friend.) Personally I generate a different move command for each moving ENEMY location using the A4a/A4b tables. It's not that onerous unless there are a very large number of moving ENEMY units and it saves you having to deal with the weirdness of how to cope with a "BERSERK" result for the whole ENEMY side at once. It also has the benefit of adding in a little more fog of war to the ENEMY move.

- HOWEVER, in this game, per the "Prevailing Attitude" section, things get both more and less complicated. The advance attitude S? move along a (alternate) hexgrain toward the bridge. As for activated German units, well you'll have to work out for yourself how to reconcile the first sentence "...and any units activated from them..." with the last sentence "Activated units move as per S9." when they are in conflict as it doesn't make much sense to me. You might actually have to start playing and see which makes more sense.

- Finally, it's a good idea to remember that automatic actions will supersede other move commands. Especially as a new player you'll want to familiarize yourself with the automatic actions indicated in S6.3. (Among other things a 'heavy weapon' includes 3pp+ support weapons, so all those German MMG that have LOS to your guys during Prep fire will have fire commands and you'll only be rolling to check for Panic.)

Have fun and don't worry overmuch about making mistakes - you'll work it all out in the long run!
We started playing with rolling for each individual stack but the results weren't that good. So after the first 12-13 missions, we decided to follow the rules. And so far it seems to give a better over all result. It does have some bad moments ( for example - getting an AM command when they really have to get across the board ).

The important thing for us is to have fun - which we are - and to learn the rules better - which we are.

After owning the game for 30 years it's about damn time!

Now that we have the rules down better, maybe we'll go back to rolling for each individual stack and see how it plays out.

EDIT: I remember one of the reasons we went to following the rules. After each scenario we discuss it. By rolling for each stack individually, their attacks were just piece meal affairs and we would just blast them apart - sometimes with very little effort. By rolling once and all do the same, their attacks are coherent and in general are better.
 
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Simon62

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Hi all,

thanks for the excellent comments and advice it is much appreciated. I am clear in my mind how to proceed.

The reason I jumped in with this campaign as a starting point is that I have just finished a face to face over VASL playing of this campaign game as the Germans and was interested to see how it played in SASL as opposed to the original ASL game. May be it is a bit ambitious but have been playing ASL for more years than I would like to admit to and hope that SASL will open up a new chapter in my ASL journey.

As barking monkey has noted I need to make a decision on how to move the suspects to the bridge rather than the FBE - given the setup of the suspects it lends to them all moving down a hex grain towards the bridge with a few anomalies for units close to the canal which will need to advance using alternative hex grains down the banks towards the bridge. I will also check for activation of the suspects adjacent to my units in the German prep fire phase and then the rest in the German movement phase as they move and hit the conditions for activation.

I think i will go for rolling for each activated unit on the move commands separately as i feel that this gives a more realistic move pattern, however, i note that this is not strictly as the rules prescribe so i will see how it goes.

once again thanks for the great answers and advice from everyone and I feel confident that I can now move forward - at least with the first go!!!! sure i will have further questions as I progress.

Regards

Simon
 

A_T_Great

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Ok thanks for the clarifications.

From the first response you indicate that suspects cannot be setup adjacent to friendly units - i can't find that anywhere in the rules can you point me to it i cant see the wood for the trees!!

the situation arises as I am playing the PB SASL campaign from the board gamer and it takes its friendly setup area from the second campaign in PB, the suspect counters then setup in buildings and as per S4.1b- this means that there are suspect units adjacent to friendly units at setup - just can't see where this is prohibited.

Regards
Simon
You are right that is not in the rules. I apologize for the confusion. As others have stated, it is just that they can't setup within 3 hexes of the FBE. Good luck on you game!
 

Simon62

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hi A-T_Great - no need for any apologies thankyou for taking the time to answer, the original questions were answered and you have given me insight into another rule on setup that I was not aware of and probably would have missed. I appreciate your input
 
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