Just got Avalon Hill 1985 ASL rules - recommended sources for additions?

[JeffPreston]

Hi Folks!

I've been playing SL on and off since 1979 and have just jumped into ASLSK 1 and 3. I saw the Avalon Hill 1985 rules for sale cheap and picked them up. I understand that the MMP rules are a big improvement, but the budget for them has to wait for the moment.

Does anyone have any tips for anything I can download and add to my AH 1985 ASL rulebook?

I've got lots of charts and such which dedicated enthusiasts have produced, but wondered if there are errata sheets and so forth which are essential downloads for one such as me, who has the 1985 version?

Any help is very much appreciated!

- Jeff

PS - Playing Clash at Borisovka (from ASLSK 3) solo right now. First time I've had an ASL Tiger fire its gun. It rolled a 12! T34 nipped around the back and blew it to atoms...

 

[Jazz]

Get V2 of the book. Just buy it if you really want to play ASL. it was published sometime around late '90s/early 2000's (?)

There were multiple page revisions to the original (V1, '85) rules as originally published. Without these revisions the original rules are unusable. I know of no source for these revised pages other than purchasing the original modules that they came in. You can probably find a list of these revised pages athe ASL FAQ (https://grognard.com/faqs/FAQ0.htm), but I seriously doubt they are available other than from a collector.

For a more detailed discussion, please look at <https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/799278/aslrb-v1-conversion-aslrb-v2>

 

[Philippe D.]

If you have the chapter dividers, and Chapter H for the Russians and Germans (which came with the original release of the rulebook), you can also consider buying the pocket rulebook - it's cheaper, it's close to up to date (much more than the 1st ed. rules), it comes with chapter E, F, G, and it's more portable. The caveat is, it's also printed much smaller - if you've been playing SL for that long, your eyes might like a larger print by now. The pocket rulebook is pretty good for looking up a rule, esp. at a meeting, but when you're learning the rules, maybe the larger version is more comfortable (except when reading in bed).

 

[Eagle4ty]

MMP also puts both V1 & V2 Errata on their site yet and many of the Q&As (Klas' compilation offered through this forum) pertain to or help clarify the V1 rules. Much of V2 is clarifications though there are many additions as well that pertain to newer terrain types and or specific situations. A few of the download pages (V2) on MMP, BFP and other sites may help with the transition from V1 to V2, but there are no wholesale replacement pages beyond those offered in the original AH offerings that I'm aware of. For an initial transition from ASLSK to ASL the V1 rules should be fairly sufficient, however, you would want to get the V2 rules in pretty short order to fully immerse yourself into the game.

 

[JeffPreston]

Whoa - thanks to everyone for their rapid responses!

I understand that the MMP rules are a big improvement, but the budget for them has to wait for the moment, so in the meantime I'll be reading about all the interesting things not in the ASLSK sets that I'll be looking forward to in version 2.

I've already used (non-ASLSK) things from the ASL rules in some of my ASLSK games and it's been enormous fun!

Thanks again.

- Jeff

 

[Robin Reeve]

The pocket rulebook has chapters A to H, all replacement pages and errata listed, at a lesser price than the 2nd edition rulebook.
And it is much more practical to use than the binder.

 

[clubby]

A to G

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Whoa - thanks to everyone for their rapid responses!

I understand that the MMP rules are a big improvement, but the budget for them has to wait for the moment, so in the meantime I'll be reading about all the interesting things not in the ASLSK sets that I'll be looking forward to in version 2.

I've already used (non-ASLSK) things from the ASL rules in some of my ASLSK games and it's been enormous fun!

Thanks again.

- Jeff

You will learn things wrong using the 1st Ed rulebook which you will then have to unlearn. This also is costly

 

[Jazz]

As Aaron points out, you will learn things wrong. If and when you play with someone who uses the real rules, you will descend back down the learning curve....and if you don't have the real rules to refer to on your own, you will probably fall back into the hole afterwards.

Your call.....

 

[jrv]

There are some changes between v1 and v2, but mostly they are filling in of details that v1 skipped over. I think it is extra effort to learn from a v1 rulebook, so I would heartily recommend acquiring a v2 rulebook if possible, but if it is not possible learning from a v1 rulebook is not going to make you re-learn the game when you finally get v2. Most of us had v1 rulebooks and transitioned to v2 when it came out.

JR

 

[Philippe D.]

Maybe we should list the main differences between v1 and current rules, so he doesn't concentrate on them if he intends to move to v2 not too long in the future

Off the top of my head: Human Waves and Wall Advantage (and Bocage). There are probably others though.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Purchasing 2nd edition is the way to go.
Listing all the errata and wording precisions that led to it would be hardly possible - it isn't just about HW or WA.
If one hesitates about spending money for the basic elements of the system, it could be better to stop the adventure at that stage.
The 2nd edition rules are nearly 20 years old now : adapting to them is necessary.
And the pocket rulebook allows a cheaper expense.

 

[Vinnie]

You can play perfectly well with first edition.
Hi to the Texas ASL site for the errata. That will not bring your book up to 2nd edition but will get most stuff.
If wall advantage and human waves are going to make a big difference in your post, then you are already hooked

So will buy the latest edition anyway.

 

[von Marwitz]

You will learn things wrong using the 1st Ed rulebook which you will then have to unlearn. This also is costly

This. Learning things wrong and then having to unlearn them is a PITA. It might haunt you for years to come.

von Marwitz

 

[bprobst]

It should be remembered (it's not critical, but it would be foolish to not take it into account) that there were many, many changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed. that never, ever made it to any list of errata (official or otherwise). Now, a great many of those changes were simple changes of phrasing to enhance clarity -- but not all of them.

It should also be remembered that piling on top of those changes, you have 2nd ed. replacement rules pages that also contain changes not otherwise enumerated in lists of errata. Once you're in the position of applying errata to errata pages that replaced pages you never even saw in the first place, you run the risk of losing track of the entire rule!

To put it another way, if you had a 1st ed. rulebook, a complete set of 1st ed. rule page replacements, and a complete list of all of the official 1st ed. rules errata and Q&A (some of which were overturned in the transition to 2nd ed.), it would take you many days of effort to incorporate that all into a useful document, and you still would be missing several important 2nd ed. changes, and a whole host of minor changes. Much of the important 2nd ed. errata that's been released over the last several years would also be of no assistance to you.

If money is tight, then don't throw it away on a 1st ed. rulebook! There are better things to spend your money on. As mentioned above, a pocket rulebook would actually be useful (although as has been discussed at length elsewhere, is absolutely not a substitute for the full 2nd ed. rulebook). Or, just save your money and buy the 2nd ed. at a later date.

 

[JeffPreston]

This is a most interesting discussion - many thanks to all who have posted.


Ownership of the 1985 rules has been invaluable as I neither had the budget for, nor was prepared - without having seen them - to spend £57.00 on, the MMP rules.


I needed a good look at a version of the rules first. My concern was there would be so much extra material beyond ASLSK 3, or that its presentation would be so difficult to read, that I would simply reject it out of hand as being too much work for a wargame.


The 1985 rules were very cheap - so the budget has not been affected much.


At this point I understand that updating the 1985 rules with inserts, etc is not the way to go and the next step is simply getting the MMP product. I also understand that although the pocket edition may be easier to transport and to read in bed, the big binder edition is the safe bet for the full rules.

 

[Vinnie]

Rather than read the rules, get yourself a game, either live or VASL and just play. That way you will learn the rules.

 

[JeffPreston]

>> Rather than read the rules, get yourself a game, either live or VASL and just play. That way you will learn the rules.

I see what you mean. I've had ASLSK 3 for a short while now and have just about got my head around infantry, ordnance and AFVs at the SK level, but would be way out of my depth in a game of full ASL for the moment as I simply don't know how to play it - I know how to play part of it - and that, according to SK rules.

But I am looking forward to moving deeper as I miss those things I was used to with SL, such as passengers, OBA, full LOS, multi-level buildings, etc.

I'm pretty sure live games are likely to be VASL - I have it installed but I need to watch a video or two on how that is best used.

 

[clubby]

There's not really much to VASL past learning some keyboard shortcuts that are not necessary to play but make life easier. It's just like playing a real FtF game except the pieces and board are virtual. If you can move pieces around a real board, you can play VASL.

 

[greuh]

It will be very hard if you want to have an updated ruleset from you v1 rulebook. You can play with v1, still, but outdated.
For instance, chapter E, which is very much required, was in Yanks v1. It's now updated and included with v2.
If you want Chapter K, it is here and there (Paratrooper for the first chapters).
For F and G, you will have to get the upcoming Hollow Legions and the current Rising Sun (or find West of Alamein, Croix de Guerre (one page F in it), Code of Bushido & Gung Ho).
For Chapter H, no changes : you need, like, every module.

My suggestion : at minimum, get yourself a Pocket Rulebook. You have a set of dividers, so that's useful. Better, get the new rulebook.
Edit : also, your v1 rulebook is quite sufficient to play VASL with someone who has both knowledge and up-to-date rules. So maybe read your rulebook and find a VASL game ?

I think I have v1 of Chapter E somewhere, with the divider, I need to look (I got Yanks v1 but a RB v2, so I must have two chapters E).