Rev said:
Mark,
I will be the first one to claim that the axis possess too much of an advantage.
(snip)
31% (17) - ALLIES Overwhelming Victory
4% (2) - ALLIES Substantial Victory
4% (2) - Draw
4% (2) - AXIS Marginal Victory
2% (1) - AXIS Substantial Victory
56% (30) - AXIS Overwhelming Victory
The numbers, unfortunately, are meaningless. *ALL* the playtest data needs to be from the most recent version. Most of the newer versions have all been changing the balance in favor of the Allies. Therefore, any reports from prior versions are meaningless in determining the exact leanings of the scenario.
Now I could go on and split hairs on this but the numbers speak for themselves. Overall the axis win and when they do it’s usually an overwhelming victory. They are nearly 2-1 in wins versus allied play.
Also, it should be noted that the vets
usually win when they play - so if they are choosing to play as the Axis more often than not, that side will win more often than not. This isn't exactly a reflection on the scenario, but sometimes more a result of skill with the game system.
This is complete lop sided a-historical result. In reality, the allies won an overwhelming victory and that should be where the scenario is measured from, not a 50/50 chance of either side winning. The favor is in the allied hands. The majority and expectation should be that most of the victories should be in the hands of the allies, NOT the axis.
From a design standpoint, I don't agree with this. I've spent a good portion of my life developing a WWII grand campaign board game, and if we follow history and produce a 'proper' game, the Allies would win every time. Who would want to play that? Our changes (in favor of game balance) have been such that we hope the Axis is win 1 out of every 3 games. It's not any fun otherwise.
Now 3.3 starts in July of 1939, which seems only to give the axis a start advantage, which means now they are drilling into Poland 2 months early. Is that necessary? The axis always take the pre-war buildups which just gives them more firepower.
The most recent version makes the Prewar builds less attractive than ever before, by giving the Russian some *very* sweet units to compensate. This will also spell Finland's doom quite easily, as it's the lack of armor (mech or otherwise) that makes the Finns so hard to beat. *With* these units, a vet EA player is going to slice the Finns to ribbons.
Maintaining a multi-front war seems to be little to no problem. As a matter of fact, most good axis players will pursue several fronts at the same time. Denmark, Norway, and the invasions of France are usually going on at the same time or near the same time with overlap. Supply should always be a problem, and it doesn’t seem to be the case.
Denmark and Norway require about a turn to take. And if done properly, the Allies cannot even respond. So basically, France is done by itself. And then you tackle Russia.
The shock which affects the allies affects all the allies, which doesn’t make sense. Many turns tons of units are orange banded and can not move. Another issue is the lack of naval supply capacity, which should be huge for the allies and isn’t. The royal navy should be able to control the high seas and prevent major Italian sorties from supporting any Middle Eastern invasions or supply to armies in Africa.
This is more a problem with TOAW itself than a reflection of the scenario.
In the game I am in, Raver is supplying about 4-6 air groups, 5 corps, 2-3 divisions and a few brigades along with some smaller units from ports in Greece/Italy, to Palestine, down to Egypt across to Basra and up through Iraq, like it’s a stroll in the park. That is ridiculous and impossible. Given that any success in Africa will always lead to a 2nd front against the Soviets.
You are aware of the new changes which (drastically!) limit the Germans in Africa? It will now come down to Italians with some small German support, against the Brits, which is proper.
Another problem is the inability to break down any unit into a size small enough to ship. I have been unable to move any UK units out of South Africa because I don’t have the shipping capacity to get them home. How is that? How did they get there in the first place? There should always be a break down option or enough naval to ship the heaviest unit home.
There is a breakdown option for all Brit units. If you are encountering this difficulty, it is because all the formation slots for the Africa formation are already full. (Mark - you could consider breaking the Africa formation into two seperate formations - this might be a very good idea). This is because you already have some units split, are there is no room for further breakdowns.
I have more thoughts but I think I have dumped enough on you already. Perhaps Mantis or Ravenstrike or Raver or Siberian or anyone who has multiple wins as the axis can pipe in and give food for thought. Why do they play the axis, what do they do in general?
I played most of my early games as the Axis because when I first told everyone that the Germans could win *every* game by going through Africa to the Middle East, no one would listen to me. :laugh:
So I set out to prove a point, and did it over and over again. I even did it once (my first game) without using the Barbarossa TO. Once I had 'done my time', people started to listen. It also helped that I had many games under my belt myself.
Most of my current games are as the Allies. (I believe I'm doing very well in all of them, with perhaps only one in doubt, and that is a 1.x game... One other game that is too early to tell, vs. Mike).
The newest version has changed quite a lot of factors (heavily!) in favor of the Allies. There can now
only be the DAK in Africa until the Germans show some success. (No more dozen korps of German infantry, and 3 korps of Panzers pushing towards Cairo). The Reds get a mess of high prof/very strong units to match the prewar builds.
We need to gather more data on the latest changes prior to making any determinations that the game is unbalanced. I am very pressed for game time, but I'm almost inclined to invite you to take up the Axis banner against me, and we can learn how the new version stands together!