Journal 14 and VASL

[Tuomo]

Couple things:
* No, the SP map that came with Journal 14 isn't available on VASL. Yes, I know people will want that to happen. We'll let you know when it does.

* J225 (At The Feet of Zeus) seems to cause an error in VASL when you try to set it up. Might be the overlays that go across the board, perhaps in combination with the terrain SSRs. Doug Rimmer knows about it. Edit - you might want to try putting down the overlays using the Draggable Overlays; I got a similar error for J226 Drawing The Kroh, but the Draggable Overlays worked.

* J242 (Courage of Cowan) mentions that the Stream is Dry, but it's in the US setup instructions, not in any of the SSRs. Careful.

* J245 (Factory Fodder) says that "rowhouse black bars do not exist", which might be confusing until you realize that rowhouses are Factories, so they probably don't mean that the black bars become open ground - they become part of the stone Factory.

 

[Stewart]

Couple things:
* No, the SP map that came with Journal 14 isn't available on VASL. Yes, I know people will want that to happen. We'll let you know when it does.

* J225 (At The Feet of Zeus) seems to cause an error in VASL when you try to set it up. Might be the overlays that go across the board, perhaps in combination with the terrain SSRs. Doug Rimmer knows about it.

* J242 (Courage of Cowan) mentions that the Stream is Dry, but it's in the US setup instructions, not in any of the SSRs. Careful.

* J245 (Factory Fodder) says that "rowhouse black bars do not exist", which might be confusing until you realize that rowhouses are Factories, so they probably don't mean that the black bars become open ground - they become part of the stone Factory.

Why would the J242 list the terrain change in the SETUP???

 

[Robin Reeve]

Why would the J242 list the terrain change in the SETUP???

Tuomo singled out that fact, precisely because it is strange.

 

[Robin Reeve]

" J245 (Factory Fodder) says that "rowhouse black bars do not exist", which might be confusing until you realize that rowhouses are Factories, so they probably don't mean that the black bars become open ground - they become part of the stone Factory.

Each time a SSR simply says that those bars don't exist, I wonder if they are Open Ground or Building terrain.
What seems obvious to designers is not always for players who cannot read in their minds.

 

[Stewart]

Tuomo singled out that fact, precisely because it is strange.

No kidding, so how could a "playtested" scenario pass the "wtf is the terrain SSR doing in the setup section" test

 

[Robin Reeve]

No kidding, so how could a "playtested" scenario pass the "wtf is the terrain SSR doing in the setup section" test

Things happen.
What other reason would you suggest?

 

[PresterJohn]

Aliens!
With probes.

 

[TJ Fachko]

the SF map is a work of art, pun intended...the huts are pure goodness!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

* J242 (Courage of Cowan) mentions that the Stream is Dry, but it's in the US setup instructions, not in any of the SSRs. Careful.

SSR 1 makes it a Dry Stream.... "Ground Snow (E3.72) is in effect."

E3.722 TERRAIN: Ground/Deep Snow turns all marsh/mudflat terrain into Open Ground (B16.8), freezes all streams,...

B20.7 FRIGID/FROZEN: If a stream is designated as frozen, it is treated as a dry stream regardless of depth...

 

[GeorgeBates]

B20.7 FRIGID/FROZEN: If a stream is designated as frozen, it is treated as a dry stream regardless of depth...

Except that it is still frigid.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Except that it is still frigid.

IIRC, only non-Dry Streams can be frigid...

 

[GeorgeBates]

IIRC, only non-Dry Streams can be frigid...

That's what I thought, but then Uncle Duke pointed out this Q&A (v30). A surprise, to say the least.

B20.41, B20.7, & B20.8

Q. By SSR all streams are shallow and frigid. There is a Ford on the stream. B20.7 treats all non dry streams as frigid water obstacles.

B20.81 treats movement into a Ford as movement into a stream of depth one less than specified, i.e., Shallow stream becomes dry.

Is the Ford still part of the frigid Water Obstacle with all the consequences?

A. Yes, the Ford stream hex is frigid

 

[klasmalmstrom]

But that Q&A says there's an SSR that says the stream is shallow - in this particular scenario the stream is Dry.

That Q&A is for a special case with a Shallow stream with a Ford - it's not applicable for the scenario in question.

 

[GeorgeBates]

But that Q&A says there's an SSR that says the stream is shallow - in this particular scenario the stream is Dry.

Thanks. I'll follow-up with you directly on the Q&A.

 

[Vic Provost]

No kidding, so how could a "playtested" scenario pass the "wtf is the terrain SSR doing in the setup section" test

This is a proofing problem, you need to have as many eyeballs as possible on anything to do with this game, I sure do for Dispatches and stuff still leaks through, remember, we are all human so are NOT perfect, mistakes happen but the more folks checking via the proofing process makes it that much less likely to happen.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

This is a proofing problem, you need to have as many eyeballs as possible on anything to do with this game..

In this particular case (scenario J242) it wasn't an issue (proofing or otherwise) - since SSR 1 handled it....

That being said, some stuff is hard to "catch" when proofing, some stuff mighr require actual play testing, or at least they are easier to spot when actually playing the scenario...

 

[Vinnie]

I thinkminwas the one to submit that question. In the scenario (a CH one, quelle surpris) the streams were defined as frigid and shallow but had fords. The question was since a Ford is Treated as one level higher, were they still fridgid?
this is a big difference to a stream being dry.

 

[GeorgeBates]

Really defeats the purpose of fords in early winter and early spring scenarios

 

[Perry]

Each time a SSR simply says that those bars don't exist, I wonder if they are Open Ground or Building terrain.
What seems obvious to designers is not always for players who cannot read in their minds.

Each time an SSR says that those bars don't exist, the building underneath them remains.
Unless an SSR were to declare them to be Open Ground.
Which one scenario did WBITD.
Confusing everyone ever since.

 

[Vinnie]

Really defeats the purpose of fords in early winter and early spring scenarios

Not really,you just have to SSR them as non frigid where there are ford's.