Jedburghs in ASL?

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Eighty - One Jedburgh teams parachuted into Occupied France. 21 of the 244 men and women on these teams were reported KIA against Axis Occupation forces. 17 more were recovered "wounded in action against the enemy".

There are plenty of ASL scenarios depicting partisan operations throughout WW2, all over Europe, the Balkans and the Eastern Front.

Are there any ASL scenarios that depict the combat actions of the Jedburghs?

KRL, Jon H
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
I vaguely recall one, but cannot for the life of me think where it is. HoB Special Forces pack perhaps? Although I think there may be an official scenario depicting a French or Belgian partisan action with a Jedburgh team somewhere? Pretty rare though, if I am not imagining things there are certainly only a few. That said I am not familiar with the SP or CH stuff, and probably many other smaller TPPs.

Eighty - One Jedburgh teams parachuted into Occupied France. 21 of the 244 men and women on these teams were reported KIA against Axis Occupation forces. 17 more were recovered "wounded in action against the enemy".

There are plenty of ASL scenarios depicting partisan operations throughout WW2, all over Europe, the Balkans and the Eastern Front.

Are there any ASL scenarios that depict the combat actions of the Jedburghs?

KRL, Jon H
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
Although not Jedburghs (which IIRC correctly were SOE?) , there are three late war Europe SAS/Partisan scenarios in HoB Special Forces Pack I, SF-4 Watson's Wood, SF-5 Bushwhacking the Ambush, and SF-6 The Three Companies. All use the SAS counters and SSRs from the same pack.

I am pretty sure there is one somewhere though, in an official scenario with the Maquis IIRC. I know Rout Report (wow, now I'm dating myself) also had one or two SOE in Yugoslavia with Tito's forces (one with McLean IIRC), but again these were not official Jedburghs (although the role there was very similar and the Yugoslav experience probably fed into the whole concept elsewhere).

I vaguely recall one, but cannot for the life of me think where it is. HoB Special Forces pack perhaps? Although I think there may be an official scenario depicting a French or Belgian partisan action with a Jedburgh team somewhere? Pretty rare though, if I am not imagining things there are certainly only a few. That said I am not familiar with the SP or CH stuff, and probably many other smaller TPPs.
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
That's weird, just dug through my "Misc" scenario binder. In addition to reminding me how old I am and how much "old crap" I have not played yet from various 'zines and the like, oddly the scenarios I recall do not appear among the Rout Report stuff in the binder. I am pretty sure there was a series of German paras (SS paras even?) vs Yugoslav partisans, and one involving Tito's cave and his SOE advisors. Of course perhaps I was extremely drunk and smoking crack at the time.

Although not Jedburghs (which IIRC correctly were SOE?) , there are three late war Europe SAS/Partisan scenarios in HoB Special Forces Pack I, SF-4 Watson's Wood, SF-5 Bushwhacking the Ambush, and SF-6 The Three Companies. All use the SAS counters and SSRs from the same pack.

I am pretty sure there is one somewhere though, in an official scenario with the Maquis IIRC. I know Rout Report (wow, now I'm dating myself) also had one or two SOE in Yugoslavia with Tito's forces (one with McLean IIRC), but again these were not official Jedburghs (although the role there was very similar and the Yugoslav experience probably fed into the whole concept elsewhere).
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
TAC 17 Bren Guns is another SAS and Maquis scenario, I think it is the one I was thinking of. The Yugoslav thing is going to bug me though, I am sure those were Rout Report scenarios.
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
Z25 Knight's Move is one of the Yugoslav ones. Driving me nuts that I cannot find my copies though. I think there were a series of three representing the SS Para raid on Tito's HQ.

Edit: Or two anyways, Z26 The Cemetery is the other I believe. Still can't find my copies though. Grr.

TAC 17 Bren Guns is another SAS and Maquis scenario, I think it is the one I was thinking of. The Yugoslav thing is going to bug me though, I am sure those were Rout Report scenarios.
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
There are actually several Maquis featured scens over the decades.

The Jedburghs were a joint OSS/ SOE operation. Two servicemen, one officer, one NCO enlisted rank, paired with a civilian from the country the team was to be dropped into ( they were usually "commissioned" as reserve or volunteer reserve officers to prevent their being shot under the "cloak and Dagger" edict, if captured. This did not fair well, however. Those who were captured were never afforded any considerations as "prisoners of war".)

The teams for Occupied France and Vichy are well documented in two historical works. One is an "unofficial" official history, written in 2005 when most of the operational records were released under the various National / State Security laws. The other is the memoirs and biography of the man who was an NCO Drill Instructor at the operatives' school of instruction in "military and sabotage arts".

The rest of the Jedburgh teams ( those who parachuted into Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, and the French and Dutch Indonesian countries) were far less well documented.

Their mission was to act as liaisons between Allied Command and the resistance cells, to act in overt operational manners as military and local area advisers, and to carry out intricate demolition and sabotage work that necessitated a working knowledge of more than basic explosives use.

Their inherent role in the resistance cells would, I believe, offer an interesting possibility of a scenario or two with "allied SMC" counters to represent the operatives in action. Perhaps as a 1-4-9 and a fanatic 8-1 ( the 8-1 having the same restrictions as any "allied troops" with leaders, with the exception of being able to direct the Hero's fire without detriment.) The fanatic status would be fitting for such men and women, they would rather die in combat or active resistance than be tortured to death. There is ample evidence in both books I have read that a Jedburgh team used a Bazooka to crack open the blast doors on a "freya" radar station in order to enter and capture / photograph the equipment and documents therein. There is ample evidence to suggest no less than 4 separate "snatch" operations, to seize local officials for interrogation by Allied Intelligence in England.

Plenty of stuff for an interesting scenario concept here.

the Wikipedia page offers an interesting selection of books, I'm going to go "book hunting" I believe :)

KRL, Jon H
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
Lots of Maquis, but very few with SAS (above) or SOE (Yugoslav ones above?) or Jedburgh support... if any in the latter case. You might want to pick up MRD Foot's history of SOE, as SOE had been doing such operations for many years all over the world before they were formalized as Jedburgh teams - and long before OSS was on the scene... ;-)

There are actually several Maquis featured scens over the decades.]
 
Last edited:

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
I'm not sure about making them Fanatic or Heroic either. Plenty of examples of SOE men and women being caught and tortured (sometimes to death). Here is another good read on the subject, particularly for French and Belgian networks but also Eastern Europe and the Far East:
Canadians Behind Enemy Lines, 1939-1945 By Roy MacLaren

Parts of it used to be online on the Veterans Affairs Canada website, not sure if it still is. Recently updated with a new intro (not sure he updated the text with additional info coming to light almost daily as SOE and MI5 and MI9 files are released at Kew as people pass away).

Coincidentally, a Canadian friend of mine in Ontario just posted this on FB (photo attached):
"My mother in law's mom fought in the French Resistance. She died at 100 years old and these guys have shown up at the funeral."

View attachment 46228

Edit: The Times of London and other British papers used to regularly publish the obits of SOE members and Resistance fighters, with lengthy accounts of their actions. Another good source. The woman mentioned above ( http://sgmcaen.free.fr/resistance/joly-reine.htm ) and the gentlemen who showed up at her funeral are likely going to get a write-up in the "Lives Lived" feature of The Globe and Mail, hopefully in time for D-Day 70th.

Edit 2: Another recent work: http://www.harpercollins.ca/books/Unlikely-Soldiers-Jonathan-F-Vance/?isbn=9780002007351 . Despite the heroism of the two individuals, less impressed as an historian with this work, as the Macalister and Pickersgill account has been written about endlessly, and not really much new here, when Vance (a much over-rated Canadian military historian in my opinion) could have included or focused on the stories of countless other Canadians who worked with SOE or OSS whose accounts are coming to light as files are being released. Maclaren's book is much better (and includes the "untold story" of Pickersgill and Macalister, as does MRD Foot's various histories of SOE!) , if you only have time to look at one.
 
Last edited:

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
I dimly recall a dissertation published by a University around 2000-2004 focusing on Canadian SOE volunteers. I wonder how many of the volunteers were collected from the Dominions.

I am also keenly interested in operations in French Indochina and the Dutch Indonesian colonies.

Thanks for the book tipoffs, and the papers, not yet thought of looking to local source news items for the last20 years or so. As you note ,this could be a very valuable resource.

A curiosity - would it be wrong to assume that post- industrialized developed countries would have followed suit in the 1990s and early 2000s and archived many of their local news source documents online; or on microfiche with searchable indices available online and contact information to allow photostat of the microfiche as needed? If you happen to know, I would be grateful ( generally speaking , of course. I'd not expect "hoboken, South Africa, population 14", to have their daily newspaper on the web, of course. Certainly our weekly local circular - River News Herald, has just gone ( relatively speaking) internet - with their website became active in Dec of 2011, and still leaves much to desire for research capability.

KRL, Jon H
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
This seems to be the most recent (and only?) SOE one in Theses Canada (from 1991), but I only did a very quick search:

http://amicus.collectionscanada.gc.ca/s4-bin/Main/ItemDisplay?l=0&l_ef_l=0&id=&v=1&lvl=2&coll=18&rt=1&itm=37682820&rsn=S_WWWkcaLmAedE&all=1&dt=+AW+|Special|+AND+|Operations|+AND+|Executive|+OR+AW+|SOE|&spi=-&rp=4&v=1

I believe this was published as a book as well (or at least someone published a book on SOE in Greece recently, using newly released files from Kew). Chris D. may recall others? Battleschool, you out there?

Maclaren talks about the SOE recruitment process (as does Foot of course) and both discuss how many were from the Dominions. A lot. Especially if you consider Scotland a Dominion as well... ;-)

As to newspapers, that is a Pandora's Box. Most state and provincial archives in North America (or local county or parish Record offices in the UK) have digital collections of "their" historical newspapers. A lot have not been digitized yet though due to lack of resources, and then you are stuck with old microfilm or microfiche (<shudder>) copies. US and Canadian National Archives also have digital versions of "national" papers, (whatever those were when there was no nation, say before 1867 in the Canadian sense), similarly TNA/PRO. Some major newspapers (Times of London and Globe and Mail, using the term loosely for the latter) also have their own paywall digital and searchable archives. If you have access to a good uni library you can usually get these for free as part of the uni online database collections, as well as things such as the British Newspaper Archive (part of the BL, http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ ). Finally, London Gazette is online ( https://www.thegazette.co.uk/ )and it contains lots of pertinent Second World War goodies, if you know how and where to look for them... ;-)

Finally finally, most good public libraries often provide access to some of these resources online as well (as would Library of Congress I suspect?).

Hope this is useful.

Edit: PS Just don't touch the East Africa stuff in the Gazette or I will find you and break your fingers! ;-)

I dimly recall a dissertation published by a University around 2000-2004 focusing on Canadian SOE volunteers. I wonder how many of the volunteers were collected from the Dominions.

I am also keenly interested in operations in French Indochina and the Dutch Indonesian colonies.

Thanks for the book tipoffs, and the papers, not yet thought of looking to local source news items for the last20 years or so. As you note ,this could be a very valuable resource.

A curiosity - would it be wrong to assume that post- industrialized developed countries would have followed suit in the 1990s and early 2000s and archived many of their local news source documents online; or on microfiche with searchable indices available online and contact information to allow photostat of the microfiche as needed? If you happen to know, I would be grateful ( generally speaking , of course. I'd not expect "hoboken, South Africa, population 14", to have their daily newspaper on the web, of course. Certainly our weekly local circular - River News Herald, has just gone ( relatively speaking) internet - with their website became active in Dec of 2011, and still leaves much to desire for research capability.

KRL, Jon H
 
Last edited:

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
This seems to be the most recent (and only?) SOE one in Theses Canada (from 1991), but I only did a very quick search:

http://amicus.collectionscanada.gc.ca/s4-bin/Main/ItemDisplay?l=0&l_ef_l=0&id=&v=1&lvl=2&coll=18&rt=1&itm=37682820&rsn=S_WWWkcaLmAedE&all=1&dt=+AW+|Special|+AND+|Operations|+AND+|Executive|+OR+AW+|SOE|&spi=-&rp=4&v=1

I believe this was published as a book as well (or at least someone published a book on SOE in Greece recently, using newly released files from Kew). Chris D. may recall others? Battleschool, you out there?

Maclaren talks about the SOE recruitment process (as does Foot of course) and both discuss how many were from the Dominions. A lot. Especially if you consider Scotland a Dominion as well... ;-)

As to newspapers, that is a Pandora's Box. Most state and provincial archives in North America (or local county or parish Record offices in the UK) have digital collections of "their" historical newspapers. A lot have not been digitized yet though due to lack of resources, and then you are stuck with old microfilm or microfiche (<shudder>) copies. US and Canadian National Archives also have digital versions of "national" papers, (whatever those were when there was no nation, say before 1867 in the Canadian sense), similarly TNA/PRO. Some major newspapers (Times of London and Globe and Mail, using the term loosely for the latter) also have their own paywall digital and searchable archives. If you have access to a good uni library you can usually get these for free as part of the uni online database collections, as well as things such as the British Newspaper Archive (part of the BL, http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ ). Finally, London Gazette is online ( https://www.thegazette.co.uk/ )and it contains lots of pertinent Second World War goodies, if you know how and where to look for them... ;-)

Finally finally, most good public libraries often provide access to some of these resources online as well (as would Library of Congress I suspect?).

Hope this is useful.

Edit: PS Just don't touch the East Africa stuff in the Gazette or I will find you and break your fingers! ;-)
I have student access to the CSU library system ( pay a $40.00 USD Technology fee every Semester for that.) And i'll keep my mitts off the Eritrea / Somilaland stuff only if you let me playtest Keren.

;)

KRL, jon H
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
Throw in Ethiopia, Sudan and Kenya and you have a deal. :)

Edit: Sweetener - most of the medal announcements in the Gazette have related files (same number) at TNA, almost all of which have been digitized and are available online for free download, and which contain more info - the original recommendation, correspondence along the chain of command, sometimes rationale for downgrading or upgrading a medal, &c &c. Very interesting stuff and a gold mine for scenarios.

I have student access to the CSU library system ( pay a $40.00 USD Technology fee every Semester for that.) And i'll keep my mitts off the Eritrea / Somilaland stuff only if you let me playtest Keren.

;)

KRL, jon H
 
Last edited:

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Throw in Ethiopia, Sudan and Kenya and you have a deal. :)

Edit: Sweetener - most of the medal announcements in the Gazette have related files (same number) at TNA, almost all of which have been digitized and are available online for free download, and which contain more info - the original recommendation, correspondence along the chain of command, sometimes rationale for downgrading or upgrading a medal, &c &c. Very interesting stuff and a gold mine for scenarios.
looking for some background info on the East Africa environment and political climate that preceded WW2 - here's one I found :
No Insignificant Part : The Rhodesia Native Regiment and the East Africa Campaign of the First World War and After
Author: Stapleton, Timothy J.
Publisher: Wilfrid Laurier University Press
Date Published: 2006
 

clavain

Waiting for Godot
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
616
Reaction score
87
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Country
llCanada
looking for some background info on the East Africa environment and political climate that preceded WW2 - here's one I found :
No Insignificant Part : The Rhodesia Native Regiment and the East Africa Campaign of the First World War and After
Author: Stapleton, Timothy J.
Publisher: Wilfrid Laurier University Press
Date Published: 2006
Moyse-Bartlett, H. The King’s African Rifles: A Study in the Military History of
East and Central Africa, 1890-1945. Aldershot, England: Gale &
Polden Ltd, 1956.

Anthony Mockler, Haile Selassie's War: The Italo-Ethiopian Campaign 1935-1941. Random House, 1984.

Just stop reading in both when you hit 1938ish... ;-)
 

witchbottles

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
9,100
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Rio Vista, CA
Country
llUnited States
Moyse-Bartlett, H. The King’s African Rifles: A Study in the Military History of
East and Central Africa, 1890-1945. Aldershot, England: Gale &
Polden Ltd, 1956.

Anthony Mockler, Haile Selassie's War: The Italo-Ethiopian Campaign 1935-1941. Random House, 1984.

Just stop reading in both when you hit 1938ish... ;-)
nice....

I found an interesting search item for the Jeburghs in France, rather indirectly.

1987 was a Headline news year for the Lyon Resistance, thanks to the capture and extradition and trial of Klaus Barbie. His torture and execution of Moulin and the Lyon area Resistance command cell was something that came out in length during the trial; and an american, french - born U.S. Army Platoon Sergeant had been present at the time of the Gestapo raid that took Moulin, escaping with the 5 men of the command cell who escaped the raid. Both his regular Officer - a RNVR volunteer to the SOE - and their local - born auxiliary Officer, an NCO born just outside of Lyon, France and evacuated wounded at Dunkirk - later commissioned as an auxiliary in the RAF when he volunteered for SOE duty - were slain in the short gun battle that ended when Gestapo captured the cell and its meeting areas in the apartment block.

Some of the court documents used to convict Barbie describe his execution of the wounded Maquis guards on the scene, and court testimony records confirm the interviews later of the survivors, who discussed how the cell had been located, and at some length of the Jeburgh team that was providing them arms and intelligence.

It takes some serious "info - nugget" digging to find the "happy" search string booleans that produce regional newspaper news items and regionally controlled records and documents ( i.e. below the National level records and news items. Think Provincial or County or State level, depending on the Country you are researching from.) I spent about 4 hours last night digging to come up finally with some cross referenced data = and that thanks only to stumbling onto the 1987 Klarsfeld nazi hunts for Barbie and Ivan the Terrible. I remember more than a bit of news here in the US over it all - given the extradition from Ohio to Israel of Ivan the Terrible. But the U.S. based links are all focused on that , and the Gestapo story of the Lyon detachment was not generally reported over the basic information on Barbie, even though the OSS operative there had survived the raid, and later testified against Barbie / Altmann.

KRL, Jon H
 
Top