Japanese DC Hero

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
Can I create a DC Hero if he starts MPh with no LOS to the intended target?
If the DC Hero is pure T-H Hero I guess so.
If the DC Hero is Banzai then probably not.



A regular T-H Hero can be attempted any time during the MPh..............
1.421 TANK-HUNTER (T-H) HEROES: An armed, Good Order Japanese Infantry squad/HS that in its MPh

So it would seem the derivative DC Hero attempt can also be attempted during MPh when the Infantry finally gets a LOS............................
1.424 DC HERO: A unit allowed to create a T-H Hero may, if possessing a DC, make such an attempt in its own MPh provided it is within eight MF of and has a LOS to any enemy unit/Gun and/or to any enemy-Controlled hex that contains a Known Fortification counter;

but then it starts to sound like Banzi Charge.....................
1.424 DC HERO: A DC Hero must declare as his Designated Target (and hence during his MPh must Banzai Charge) the enemy unit/Gun/Fortification that allowed his creation.

1.5 BANZAI CHARGE: A Banzai Charge is the Japanese version of a Human Wave (A25.23), and uses all rules applicable to Human Waves except as stated

25.23 HUMAN WAVE (HW): Human Wave .......forms the basis for ..........Banzai (G1.5). ........All the participating units must be in a contiguous chain of ADJACENT Locations, must be in Good Order, free to move, and cannot have started their MPh yet.
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
6,913
Reaction score
5,094
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
The only difference in the THH or DCH Banzai Charges is that they do not have to necessarilly originate at the start of a base unit's (i.e. MMC) MPh as per A25.23 but start their banzai at the point they have a LOS/are-created as put forth in G1.423.
 

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
The only difference in the THH or DCH Banzai Charges is that they do not have to necessarilly originate at the start of a base unit's (i.e. MMC) MPh as per A25.23 but start their banzai at the point they have a LOS/are-created as put forth in G1.423.
So I understand that I can start out of LOS of a concealed killer stack, send a [squad+DC] non assault moving to LOS of that enemy units (4 MF spent), survive DFF, and then create a DC Heroe (unless I roll a 6), give him the DC, who will get into (hopefully) the hex of the killer stack in that movement phase (8 MF minus 4 MF already spent). Its that right?

The japanese rules are not easy to understand unless you see things done once before...
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
So I understand that I can start out of LOS of a concealed killer stack, send a [squad+DC] non assault moving to LOS of that enemy units (4 MF spent), survive DFF, and then create a DC Heroe (unless I roll a 6), give him the DC, who will get into (hopefully) the hex of the killer stack in that movement phase (8 MF minus 4 MF already spent). Its that right?

The japanese rules are not easy to understand unless you see things done once before...
Yes it seems a THH/DCH can pre-plan their Banzai charge during the Mph.
A regular Banzai/HW has to start the Mph in LOS.
I think the DCH reference to Banzai sure confuses the rules.
 

klasmalmstrom

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
19,778
Reaction score
7,203
Location
Sweden
Country
llSweden
Can I create a DC Hero if he starts MPh with no LOS to the intended target?
G1.424:
"A unit allowed to create a T-H Hero may, if possessing a DC, make such an attempt in its own MPh provided it is within eight MF of and has a LOS to any enemy unit/Gun and/or to any enemy-Controlled hex that contains a Known Fortification counter; being within eight MF of and having a LOS to an enemy AFV is not required in this case...."

So you need a LOS, regardless of when in the MPh you want to create one.
 

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
Its so weird...

But I love the nasty tricks of the japanese! Its so different from ETO!
 

MajorDomo

DM? Chuck H2O in his face
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
3,179
Reaction score
1,025
Location
Fluid
Country
llUnited States
So I understand that I can start out of LOS of a concealed killer stack, send a [squad+DC] non assault moving to LOS of that enemy units (4 MF spent), survive DFF, and then create a DC Heroe (unless I roll a 6), give him the DC, who will get into (hopefully) the hex of the killer stack in that movement phase (8 MF minus 4 MF already spent). Its that right?

The japanese rules are not easy to understand unless you see things done once before...
If your moving squad has spent 4 MP, the DC hero would not have any MP to charge.

He normally has eight MP, minus 2 for each movement point his "daddy" has spent ( exception is if daddy is banzaing today, then minus one MP for each MP daddy has spent).
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
If your moving squad has spent 4 MP, the DC hero would not have any MP to charge.

He normally has eight MP, minus 2 for each movement point his "daddy" has spent ( exception is if daddy is banzaing today, then minus one MP for each MP daddy has spent).
???? i can't see where the MF of the moving unit *2 is deducted from MF left for the charge.
 

Juan SantaX

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
978
Reaction score
567
Location
Sevilla
Country
llSpain
If your moving squad has spent 4 MP, the DC hero would not have any MP to charge.

He normally has eight MP, minus 2 for each movement point his "daddy" has spent ( exception is if daddy is banzaing today, then minus one MP for each MP daddy has spent).
Thats a HUGE difference as I played it!!

Anyway, it was my first TH Heroe, and I’m not sure if the squad spent 4 MF or just 2; the hs that stripped the concealment of the killer squad indeed spent 4 MF, but the squad maybe 2 or 3 (one jungle-road hex).

I’m sorry for my opponent (sry Neal!)

Next time I must read the rules thoroughly
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
omg. yes.

"A T-H Hero created during a friendly MPh by a MMC that has already expended MF has two MF (one MF, if that MMC is conducting a Banzai Charge) deducted from his eight-MF allotment for each MF that MMC has already expended, but conducts his Banzai-Charge MPh before that MMC continues its MPh. "

the Japanese are so darn sneaky.
 

nekengren2

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
238
Reaction score
162
Location
Central Florida
First name
Neal
Country
llUnited States
that is super sneaky.
the concealed units can take the DFire and reduce subsequent fire.
then with 0MF more daddy creates a banzai child.
the defenders only chance left is PBF against a high morale unit.
even if DCHero fails..........the defenders are spent
 

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
4,630
Reaction score
3,244
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
that is super sneaky.
the concealed units can take the DFire and reduce subsequent fire.
then with 0MF more daddy creates a banzai child.
the defenders only chance left is PBF against a high morale unit.
even if DCHero fails..........the defenders are spent
Yep, the DC hero runs right in.
 

bendizoid

Official ***** Dickweed
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
4,630
Reaction score
3,244
Location
Viet Nam
Country
llUnited States
Usually the assault move is for 2 Mp, thereafter the hero becomes unconcealed and can spend 4 MPs. You don’t even get a chance to shoot at the hero before it continues moving, too late.
 

Bad Dice

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
348
Reaction score
115
Location
Chico
Country
llUnited States
I'd say 'yes' since G1.424 does not specifically mandate a MF expenditure. Granted that an AM unit has expended all MP to enter the Location it currently occupies, if all other conditions as specified in G1.424 are met, then the DCH could, if otherwise allowed (and my interpretation is accurate) be allowed a try at the target unit if the target unit was in conditions as specified, since the cite does not specifically address an MF expenditure regarding the creation of a DCH. Specifically, the cite in the second para, which says that 'provided he does not expend an MF' though that of course dramatically limits the argument. Still...


BD
 
Top