January 2005 Dispatches/Top 10 War Movies

Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Location
Fairfax, Va
You knew it wouldn't be long, so I'll be the first to ask, "Where is 'Saving Private Ryan'?"...........

For the most part I think you have made some fine selections. In fact there is only one included movie that I would question. Even as only an honorable mention I think it's a stretch to put "Enemy at the Gates" on the list. I think it has some excellent scenes, but taken as a whole its certainly not in the top 20 war movies.

It's the movies that have been omitted that I question far more. Where are:

-Saving Private Ryan
-A Bridge Too Far
-The Longest Day
-Glory
-Lawrence of Arabia
-Gettysburg
-Battle of Britain
-Gallipoli
-The Patriot
 

RichardS

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
256
Reaction score
0
Location
Lost in the wilds of Georgia
Country
llUnited States
Lance Williams said:
It's the movies that have been omitted that I question far more. Where are:

-Saving Private Ryan
-A Bridge Too Far
-The Longest Day
-Glory
-Lawrence of Arabia
-Gettysburg
-Battle of Britain
-Gallipoli
-The Patriot
Let's not forget:
-Zulu
-Der Brucke
-Soldier of Orange
-Winter War!


:flag:
 

RetPara

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan...
Country
llUnited States
BHD and WWS both got honerable mention.

I concur with the above. My reaction to the list was 'huh?'
 

nreese21

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
Messages
129
Reaction score
0
Location
Illinois, USA
Country
llNorway
Larkin said:
Lance, what's your problem with Enemy at the Gates?
I like EAG, but it kept going back to the love story every time it was getting good.

Just a question to ACG Mag writers, why didn't you put SPR on there? I'm curious to see your reasoning.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Location
Fairfax, Va
Larkin said:
Lance, what's your problem with Enemy at the Gates?
First of all I think that many of the action sequences are quite good..........I would give it 2 stars out of 4, watchable for that alone. What I didn't like was the love story and (sorry Dr. S.) the British accents (although I thought Bob Hoskins was great). It's not terrible, its not "Windtalkers" or "Pearl Harbor", it's just not top 20.
 

RetPara

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan...
Country
llUnited States
Wait a minute... What about

"The Green Berets" now how the hell can any list be complete without that? Leaving out the Duke can get a person brought before the Inquisition...
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Location
Fairfax, Va
RetPara said:
Wait a minute... What about

"The Green Berets" now how the hell can any list be complete without that? Leaving out the Duke can get a person brought before the Inquisition...
A much a fan of John Wayne as I am, I would be hard pressed to call The "Green Berets" a great movie. It has some great action scenes, but it has not "aged" particularly well. The extreme hard line, conservative stance of the film's makers seems locked in a "time warp" when compared to the course of the latter stages of the war.
 

RetPara

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan...
Country
llUnited States
Served with SF... spent the better part of 12 years at Bragg... so I will admit to a 'touch' of bias... other than that Lance - bite your tongue... as for hardline; you haven't SEEN hardline yet.
 

JD Morelock

ACG Editor in Chief
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Location
Fulton, MO
Country
llUnited States
Top 10 War Films

I knew our 'Top 10 War Films' list would generate a lot of forum discussion and you guys haven't let me down! This is great and the comments are super and much appreciated.

I've been at a magazine convention in NYC, so have not had the chance to post until now.

Here's some general comments and considerations on the 'Top 10' list that will help put our list in perspective:

--To paraphrase Highlander somewhat, "There can be only TEN!" i.e. we had to limit the number of picks. Therefore, some otherwise excellent war films didn't make it. Some of the ones being mentioned on the forum here are super...but...

--Most of the ones on the list have withstood the test of time and have come down as true 'classics' of the film genre (with some exceptions, of course). The implications of this are that many later films, particularly those recent ones with the state of the art special effects that we all love so much (did someone say "Saving Private Ryan" about this time?) were passed over in favor of the ones you see on the list.

--Similarly, the films chosen are ones that are consistently excellent in their totality, i.e. while many war movies have great moments, the ones on this list are particularly noteworthy when viewed as a whole. (e.g. SPR again--the Omaha Beach attack in Ryan is likely the best film depiction of combat I've ever seen. In fact, I use it in my college history course on WWII. The problem is that the rest of SPR--except for the special effects--is formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable. Minus the superb Omaha Beach segment and some excellent performances by fine actors, SPR was nearly a remake of "A Walk in the Sun", a 1945 'typical' wartime effort.)

--We sought a reasonable 'spread' of branch of service (i.e. not all 'Army' films), historical time periods (i.e. not all WWII), and country of origin (i.e. not all American films). This is not to say that we had 'quotas'--we didn't--but we wanted to have a broader scope to the selections.

--John Wayne will actually get his own 'top' list in a future issue of Armchair General. We're putting together a list of "Top 10 John Wayne War Films" as we speak. Duke fans should stay tuned.

--Finally, I think the real reason that Lance hates Enemy at the Gates is because it had a French director...
 

The Doctor

Junk Science Debunker
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
334
Reaction score
13
Location
Houston/Dallas, TX
Country
llUnited States
Lance Williams said:
A much a fan of John Wayne as I am, I would be hard pressed to call The "Green Berets" a great movie. It has some great action scenes, but it has not "aged" particularly well. The extreme hard line, conservative stance of the film's makers seems locked in a "time warp" when compared to the course of the latter stages of the war.
The Green Berets should be on the list for three reasons:

A-1 Skyraider - a rare film appearance. Are "Flight of the Intruder", "We Were Soldiers" and "The Bridges at Toko-ri" on the list?

AC-47 Spooky - I think its only film appearance.

Fulton Recovery System - in any other war movie?

My system is arbitrary and capricious, but it is a system. ;) Of course my system would put "Operation: Dumbo Drop" on the list too (C-123 Provider). I didn't say it was a good system.
 

HiredGoon

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Location
742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield
Country
llUnited States
JD Morelock said:
(e.g. SPR again--the Omaha Beach attack in Ryan is likely the best film depiction of combat I've ever seen. In fact, I use it in my college history course on WWII. The problem is that the rest of SPR--except for the special effects--is formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable. Minus the superb Omaha Beach segment and some excellent performances by fine actors, SPR was nearly a remake of "A Walk in the Sun", a 1945 'typical' wartime effort.)
I agree %100. I also believe "Enemy at the Gates," (while it has some impressive combat scenes toward the beginning), also falls into "formulaic, cliched, emotionally manipulative and totally predictable" Hollywood mold. It's very hard to get a film from Hollywood that doesn't fall into this trap. That's why I like foreign films like "Das Boot" and "Capitaine Conan," and am looking forward to the new French WWI film "The Very Long Engagement."

P.S. Could someone post the complete list for those of us who are waiting for the issue to hit the store shelves? :D
 

ALOHA RONNIE

Recruit
Joined
Aug 28, 2004
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
The Doctor said:
The Green Berets should be on the list for three reasons:

A-1 Skyraider - a rare film appearance. Are "Flight of the Intruder", "We Were Soldiers" and "The Bridges at Toko-ri" on the list?

AC-47 Spooky - I think its only film appearance.

Fulton Recovery System - in any other war movie?

My system is arbitrary and capricious, but it is a system. ;) Of course my system would put "Operation: Dumbo Drop" on the list too (C-123 Provider). I didn't say it was a good system.


NEVER FORGET


"WE WERE SOLDIERS" =

A-1E Skyraiders flown in from Chino Airport's Planes of Fame Air Museum
See http://www.PlanesofFame.com


"Flight of the INTRUDERS" =

A-1E Skyraiders shipped from Chino Airport's Planes of Fame Air Museum to Hawaii via Matson Steamship Lines, strapped to FlatRack open air Containers on Wheels
See http://www.Matson.com




Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer

Veteran - "WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965, Landing Zone Falcon

http://www.WeWereSoldiers.com
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm

20 Year SANTA - Chino Christmas Lights
http://www.lzxray.com/Ronnie3.jpg

32 Year Veteran - Matson Steamship Lines
http://www.Matson.com


NEVER FORGET
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Location
Fairfax, Va
I realize this is all very subjective. The comments J.D. makes about "SPR" are just, it is formulamatic. However, many great movies have followed a formula. What is important is what is added to the basic formula.

"SPR" went beyond just computer graphics, they recreated the best examples yet filmed of German armor. The Tiger I got most of the screen time, but the mock ups of a Marder and a 2cm Flak were all very well done.

Then there is the cast. A long list a fine actors from top to bottom. In particular I would mention the sizable roles of Tom Sizemore, Barry Pepper, Edward Burns and Matt Damon. In "cameo" roles Ted Danson, Dennis Farina and Paul Giamatti added unique depth to the movie. This doesn't even begin to speak of Tom Hanks' Oscar nominated turn in the lead role.

Maybe "SPR", "The Longest Day" and "A Bridge Too Far" don't make the list, but I just don't see how "Enemy at the Gates" could be put AHEAD of them. I could easily name FIFTY war movies that are better than "Enemy at the Gates".............This does not mean I hate the film, As I said, 2 stars out of 4. I own the DVD (and thus can avoid the less than great parts). The French director in no way factored into my opinion.
 
Last edited:

The Doctor

Junk Science Debunker
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
334
Reaction score
13
Location
Houston/Dallas, TX
Country
llUnited States
I don't know how SPR can be skipped. From weapons, gear, uniforms, vehicles...to the cast, acting and realistic battle scenes. That's like naming the top 10 baseball teams of all time and leaving out the 1927 Yankees. :(
 

The Doctor

Junk Science Debunker
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
334
Reaction score
13
Location
Houston/Dallas, TX
Country
llUnited States
ALOHA RONNIE said:
NEVER FORGET


"WE WERE SOLDIERS" =

A-1E Skyraiders flown in from Chino Airport's Planes of Fame Air Museum
See http://www.PlanesofFame.com


"Flight of the INTRUDERS" =

A-1E Skyraiders shipped from Chino Airport's Planes of Fame Air Museum to Hawaii via Matson Steamship Lines, strapped to FlatRack open air Containers on Wheels
See http://www.Matson.com




Signed:.."ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer

Veteran - "WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965, Landing Zone Falcon

http://www.WeWereSoldiers.com
http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm

20 Year SANTA - Chino Christmas Lights
http://www.lzxray.com/Ronnie3.jpg

32 Year Veteran - Matson Steamship Lines
http://www.Matson.com


NEVER FORGET
Thanks Ronnie, for the info - and for being there back in '65. Never Forget.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
413
Reaction score
0
Location
Fairfax, Va
The Doctor said:
I don't know how SPR can be skipped. From weapons, gear, uniforms, vehicles...to the cast, acting and realistic battle scenes. That's like naming the top 10 baseball teams of all time and leaving out the 1927 Yankees. :(
"SPR" made the war movie a viable commercial commodity for the first time in many years. It is unlikely that several movies on the list, "We Were Soldiers", "Blackhawk Down" and "When Trumpets Fade", as well as the mini-series "Band of Brothers", would even have been made without the box office success of "SPR".

About the most negative thing I can say about "SPR" is that while it helped get some quality war movies made, it also spawned a series of poor imitators that gave us among others, "Windtalkers" and "Pearl Harbor"............
 
Last edited:
Top