J86 Frontal Assault

[SamB]

I tried this last night against Eric Henyey and I lost as the Germans... The problem isn't the -distance- you only have to average 3 hexes per turn to arrive at the VC building the turn before the game ends. The problem is that the ground is devoid of cover and you have no smoke to speak of...

I brought the pregame "bombardment" down on 6 Brit Vehicles. I destroyed two trucks and immobilized a Sherman. With the same DR's in a different sequence I could have destroyed two Shermans, Two Trucks and immobilized a third tank. Oh, well... By turn 3 or so I had taken out two of the Fireflys and a couple of shermans. But I'd lost two panthers and had two with broken MA. (the dice were not my friends). I aslo think I got the panthers too far out in front of my infantry - and this lead to the loss of one of them.

When I play this again, I'm think I'm going to try standing off with the Panthers on turn 1 and just firing at Brit Tanks. (Pretty much what I did the first time, but this time I'd leave most of my infantry off board on turn 1). On turn two, the rest of the Panthers enter and form a "firing line" out of Piat range. Infantry uses Armored assault to move on with the Panthers (the only cover you really have.)

OR the infantry goes up the left flank through the wheat fields.

Still, I'm not at all confident that this will secure a win. Any other ideas?

The Brit has MORE infantry and OBA to play with. They are all in buildings or foxholes so have +2 TEM. You have higher morale and firepower but have to cross nothing but open ground.

I'd be interested in hearing from playtesters and experts how the German Wins this w/o very lucky dice. It is seems very hard for the German to win without luck.

Sam "not that lucky - or skilled" Belcher

 

[Robin Reeve]

Am playing it (in solo, apologies).
OBA destroyed one Firefly, and the second was killed by Panther at 19 hexes during 1st turn with a happy 4 DR (after having tried to kill the panther - 5 DR needed).
With both Fireflies out, I find the British in quite difficult a situation.
The 57L may kill (more probably immobilise) one or two panthers...
But I believe all the attention must now be concentrated on mowing down German infantry, not paying too much attention to the prowling panthers...
Germans have quite a long way to go - time will ber their principal enemy...

 

[Anonymous]

Frontal Assault

Played Frontal Assault once, not enough to draw firm conclusions, and had the same result as you. Initail bombardment destroyed a Firefly, Sherman and a truck. What are the British trucks supposed to do, other that incinerate nicely?
The Panthers finished off most of the tanks after waxing the other Firefly. Still, the British won easily as their dug-in infantry provided speed bumps, and the victory location was swarming with infantry, mmgs and piats. The mortars and guns covered the victory location from the woods, primarily.
There were too many tasks for the Panthers and eventually a Piat or deliberate immobilization got them.
The German infantry (6-5-8's) approached through the sparse woods and large grain field (further aided by the burning wrecks of the bombardment/Panther rampage). They just ran out of time by about 2 turns.

The scenario was fun, had a different feel and was of couse a "Frontal Assault". I would attack using the woods/grainfield/burning wrecks approach with the 6-5-8's but very aggressively (they are 6-5-8's after all) and they might just have a shot at victory.
Rich

 

[Anonymous]

Frontal Assault

I too, had much the same experience. The rockets got a Sherman or two, but I gacked the firefly attempt. I also had some bad luck as two Panthers malfed the MAs. The main problem for me was the Brit OBA. Yeah it is only 80mm, but the draw pile is such that it just keeps coming down again and again. And there is no place to hide, even if you can hide in a few places, the draw pile is such that an extra draw chit for out of LOS is really no big deal if the targets are juicy enough (stack of brokies). In short, my infanrty got mauled despite their 8 morale and there were too many tasks for the Panthers. It seems everything on the board can at least immobilze a Panther.

It certainly looks tough for the German to me, not unwinnable, but tough. I think the balance, which is the rockets staying onboard for FFE2/FFEC would help alot. I think you MUST kill a firefly with the rockets. Although I doubt I play it again to find out as I didn't enjoy it. It seemed we were forever doing the counter shuffle to check LOS or number of hinderances underneath foxholes/shellholes, it really bogged the game at times, we couldn't get into the flow if you will.

Doug Kirk

 

[SamB]

The balance would help, in that you'd have more chances to destroy AFVs with the rocket OBA.

But I'd also point out that a couple of people above have talked about killing the "other" firefly.... There are THREE fireflys in this scenario, not two.

I think the British trucks act almost solely as dummy concealment counters. They also burn nicely, giving some smoke cover. :twisted:

This scenario is now 7 British to 1 German win on ROAR. I think its pretty tough on the Germans. I'm just asking if there is a "solution" for the Germans in this one...

Sam

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi-

Tried this one a few days ago, and it is really tough on the SS, My rocket Arty just got the Brit trucks, so it was quite easy for the Fireflys to pick off the panthers. But I think the solution here is for the rocket Arty to kill both Fireflys, but I was never very good at shell games which this scenario seems to represent.
Out of all the J5 scenarios I played, only two struck me as being "fun", Himmlers house and Flames of unrest. Is it just me or have the last three Journals been missing their mark?


Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, there are 3 fireflys, and I if I recall correctly you can set them up dispersed so that is it possible to only hit one of them (maybe 2?) with the rockets. If you don't kill a firefly, I think it becomes very tough for the German.

I am not sure what to do with the trucks. Whatever cover you create for the Brits via smoke also helps the German. I am not sure if I would even set them up, perhaps in the back corner away from the victory building out of the way. If I am the Brit I want clear fields of fire to whack the German infantry crossing the open ground.

Doug Kirk

 

[SamB]

If you setup the trucks, they must setup as instructed. Which is within three hexes of the same spot where all the tanks are. You wouldn't have the option of setting up somewhere else.

You could, I suppose, elect to leave the trucks off, but then your opponent would know exactly where all your tanks were.

Sam

 

[Doug Kirk]

I meant set them up in the back corner of the set up area, such as 33P3, Q4 or Q5 such that they don't intefere with shots on turns 1-3 or so when the German is most venerable. I am not sure that not setting them up has any down sides, the German already knows where your tanks are anyway with the set up so restricted. Besides, I think you should be as dispersed as possible with the tanks anyway, the trucks would only let you bunch up the tanks and bunch up the trucks and hope the german hits the trucks, that is not a tactic I want to hang my hat on.

So far we have all tried bringing the OBA down on the tanks to no avail. Has anyone brought the OBA down closer to the front line on some infanrty clusters? I don't think it would work, but I haven't tried it.

Doug

 

[SamB]

I meant set them up in the back corner of the set up area, such as 33P3, Q4 or Q5 such that they don't intefere with shots on turns 1-3 or so when the German is most venerable. I am not sure that not setting them up has any down sides, the German already knows where your tanks are anyway with the set up so restricted. Besides, I think you should be as dispersed as possible with the tanks anyway, the trucks would only let you bunch up the tanks and bunch up the trucks and hope the german hits the trucks, that is not a tactic I want to hang my hat on.

If you don't setup the trucks, or always set them up in the same "corner" then all you've done is announced to your opponent where the tanks are. If you mix it up, then the opponent -might- bombard mostly trucks instead of mostly Fireflys. If you dont' set them up, or always put them back in the corner, you have no chance that he'll attack your trucks with OBA instead of your tanks.

I saw someone post that he brought the rocket OBA down on infantry. He lost and thought he'd try attacking the tanks instead. So, that's what I've done. It's also in line with what the historical notes indicate.

IMO, this might be a better scenario if it started with fewer British tanks and no rocket OBA. In other words, if it started after the rocket artillery fell - with historical results.

The rocket OBA is so "iffy" in its effects that if the Brits start with all three fireflys and 5 of 6 shermans it will be very hard for the German to win.

I'd still like to hear someone tell me how the SS win this one.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I believe that time is the ennemy of the Germans.
They have to run without spending time guessing where the two AT guns are hidden and thus must take the risk of a side shot (not speaking of APDS, which has 1/6 chances to be available)...
The small British platoons resist much better than one would think.
The 51mm mortars (or surviving Shermans) spit smoke on the Panthers that must move to get better TH chances...
I believe that if there were some StuGIII or Pz IV, it paradoxically would help the German, as Panthers cannot fire Smoke (Exc Nahverteidigungswaffe, but these are smoke dispensers). Or some 81 mm mortar teams...
So, I also do believe this scenario is better for the Allied than for the German... :roll:

 

[Guest]

Tough Nut

I have started this one as the Brits. My opponent is attempting to use armored assault to get the ground pounders safely on board, but they have to survive a *lot* of shots (even if only 2 or 4 FP) to make it anywhere.

Sam, would you like to try this one PBM? Drop a note on the VASL message board if so...I think it is an interesting challenge for the Germans.

PS - How much playtesting do you think this one got before publishing? Perhaps it was meant to be more of a historical study than a fair fight?

 

[SamB]

I think it an interesting challenge for the Germans

Yeah, I just would like to know how to win it without hot dice.

I'd play it again, but I don't do well with PBM. I would play it live...

Sam