J184 Dayan to Meet You

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,207
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
My opponent wanted something relatively light I think when he picked this scenario from ASL Journal 12. He took the defending Vichy and I the attacking Australians. The scenario benefits from some careful study. One French group sets up in an isolated group where an aggressive Australian attack can isolate and encircle it. The first group of French reinforcements can only enter on one hex in trucks on the second turn, and that hex is just barely in long range of the Australian Bren guns. For the third group of French reinforcements, two-and-a-half squds enter as cavalry on two edges, and one armored truck enters on a particular hex. If the Australians contrive their moves carefully, they can encircle the rooftop of the isolated building on the bottom half of the first turn, interdict the first group of reinforcements with two LMGs at long range (two down one with the right manning units), then interdict the armored truck with an ATR and the cavalry with LMGs and a captured French mortar.

The plan was executed fairly well. The only slight hitch was that one halfsquad with a DC broke while placing it on the isolated post. Otherwise the isolated post was encircled upstairs (mortar crew on rooftop) and then broke. The crew downstairs died in close combat and the Australians captured the mortar. The two LMGs interdicted the road where the French reinforcements came in, rolled a five (down one) to immobilize the first truck, break/elr the leader and break the squad. The residual one FP did not affect the second truck. On the third turn the ATR hit but did not kill the the armored truck and the infantry did some fair damage against the entering cavalry. At this point my opponent conceded. The Australians had done well but game was not by any means lost. My opponent just did not feel well.

My advice to the French is to try to break the Australian script. Although setting up the 60mm mortar on the rooftop of the outlier building is the obvious move, if you set it up dm on the ground floor you may be able to get away by breaking (along with the 2-2-8 crew) on the first turn. Both units rout out, taking the leader with them. Likewise the French set up two squads to try to stop the Australians from forming up in the DD14 area to interdict the French reinforcements. There are other places the Australians can set up to interdict from, but

One question my opponent had was regarding SSR 4: "Australian squads may freely Deploy (A1.31) at setup." It was unclear whether setup means only at game start, if all of the reinforcement groups can deploy freely when set up to enter too. In retrospect it has to mean that all reinforcement groups can deploy freely because there are no Australians set up on board initially. They all enter as reinforcements, one group on each of turns one through four. Since there are no Australians set up at game start (the first group enters on turn one), the SSR almost certainly means that all Australian reinforcement groups can deploy freely.

JR
 
Last edited:

CTKnudsen

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
359
Location
Borden, ON
Country
llCanada
I'm playing this at the moment, it seems a fun little scenario, definitely out of the ordinary for me anyways. My opponent and I have a slight disagreement regarding the VC, however. I contend that he must capture the bridge, he contends that he must take only the buildings. Mild grammar disagreement, on the meaning of and/or, for sure.

For the record, I would not agree with your assessment regarding deployment, although it is definitely unclear. I feel the SSR should be erraticized to read "...at Turn 1 setup." If I'm wrong, and it has been known to happen, "...during all offboard setup." would be far more clear.
 

Perry

Forum Guru
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
1,811
Reaction score
2,770
Location
Baltimore, MD
Country
llUnited States
Disagree with JRvM on rules interpretation at your own risk.

FWIW, he is right, but we're only talking about the second squad in the Turn 2 reinforcements. The lone squad in the subsequent reinforcement groups doesn't need an SSR per A2.9.

And your opponent need only take the buildings or capture the bridge; he need not do both.

Sorry if this was only clear for JR, but not for you.
 

CTKnudsen

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
359
Location
Borden, ON
Country
llCanada
Lol - I shall consider myself told! Tha is good news for my opponent on two fronts, as we had been playing it that he had to roll for deployment in the RPh before coming onboard, as per. And he was right about the VC too!

Thanks Perry!
 

Tom Morin

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
986
Reaction score
533
Location
Largo, FL.
Country
llUnited States
We played this the other night and had a good time. I had the Vichy, and the outpost fell after a feeble defensive effort. My SAN did the most damage, taking out the 9-1 on the first turn. I was able to get my truck-borne reinforcements into the 'town' and the AC and follow-on cavalry garrisoned the bridge. The Brits conceded after realizing they had run out of time after their first attack on the town was repelled.

Retrospective - we discussed and decided the Brits need to be ultra-aggressive (which my opponent wasn't), and give the DCs to the Heroes (which he didn't) causing their Morale to bump to 10 (by SSR) making them almost bullet-proof. He also did not interdict the Vichy reinforcements, which is a must.

For the Vichy outpost, I would set up the 2-2-8 manning the rooftop mortar, and the HS manning the ATG on the ground floor. Spike the ATG at the first opportunity to keep it out of British hands; I was scoring CH after CH on the Brits, but those 'big bullets' just don't do any good. The HS is better using small arms to repel the Brits.

The Vichy cavalry give some nice options, including counterattacking the outpost, which forces the Brits to keep a garrison there.

We both agreed the scenario is fun, has many options, and is an interesting historic situation that you don't see every day.

Nice design Chas.

Tom
 

CTKnudsen

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
359
Location
Borden, ON
Country
llCanada
Unfortunately, believing that I did not need to really defend the town (and wishing to stay concealed), I kept my troops in the gullies around the bridge, reinforcing them with the truck-borne guys. I now need to counter-attack, I guess!
 

Jude

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
409
Reaction score
469
Location
Colorado Springs
Country
llUnited States
Unfortunately, believing that I did not need to really defend the town (and wishing to stay concealed), I kept my troops in the gullies around the bridge, reinforcing them with the truck-borne guys. I now need to counter-attack, I guess!
Don't worry too much about how you interpreted the VC - you're not the only one! I posted on this one in the So What Scenarios Have You Played Recently section a while ago and my opponent and I both interpreted the VC the way you did. Made it easy to win as the Vichy as I did the same thing you did. Unfortunately, we totally blew the interpretation...
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,207
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
VC: "The Australians win at game end by Controlling all building hexes and/or by Controlling the bridge Location in GG8." It's hard to see how that could be misinterpreted. It could be misread, of course, but if read correctly I don't see any ambiguity or difficulty. The "and/or" is even spelled out.

JR
 

Jude

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
409
Reaction score
469
Location
Colorado Springs
Country
llUnited States
Because we separated them out. The Australians win by controlling all building hexes AND the bridge location OR the Australians win by controlling the bridge location. Like I said in my other post, my wife figured it out with no problem. I guess my friend an I over analyzed it. Not the first and certainly not the last time we'll do something like that!
 

CTKnudsen

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
359
Location
Borden, ON
Country
llCanada
I did the same as you jude. But although I will lose this one, I have still learned that and/or is apparently a pretty standard usage in VC. That's the best thing about this game, I am always learning something new!
 

aneil1234

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
451
Reaction score
164
Location
an Aussie in Falmouth, Cornwall
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Tom

You have just insulted 24 million Australians
WE ARE NOT BRITISH !!!!!
lol

That's like saying Americans are the Canadians of the South

Not Now...... Not Then...... and not since 1901 when we became Australia.
hehehehehehe

Great little scenario
Have enjoyed playing it as the Aussies (not Pommies lol)
Swapping sides
Lets see if I can hold off the Aussie hordes
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,207
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
Isn't Australia right next to Wales? Or part of Wales, or Wales is part of it or something like that.

JR
 

CTKnudsen

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
469
Reaction score
359
Location
Borden, ON
Country
llCanada
I'm not an historian (though I trained as one), but I'm pretty sure Australia was where the Welsh sent their most reviled criminals - those incapable of singing in more than 4 part harmony.

And Neil, if you are not British, as you claim, then why do you live in Britain? Seems fishy. :p
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,998
Reaction score
6,207
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
So what's the ruling on the VC? Is it control either, or, is it control both or just the bridge? pjn
I don't believe anyone sent it in for a Q&A. I myself don't see any reason to submit one. To me "controlling X and/or Y" means you can control X, control Y, or control both and win.

JR
 

aneil1234

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
451
Reaction score
164
Location
an Aussie in Falmouth, Cornwall
Country
llUnited Kingdom
Agree with JR
And/or victory conditions are in 100's of scenarios..... not just this one
And as he say's above, you do one, or the other or both.
The choice is yours

AFAIK, no one has queried these sorts of VC's before.

Hell, Its not like a Gary Fort scenario with 15 different VC options.... lol (Hi Gary, lov ya work !)
 

pj norton

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
425
Reaction score
166
Location
Detroit Michigan
Country
llUnited States
That is always how I have treated this wording. But it would not be the first time that I was wrong about interpreting wording in ASL. pjn
 
Top